The Theresa May General Election thread (edited)

Emp_Fab

Elections bring out the best in people don't they ?  Both sides trying their hardest to turn a complete non-event into something they think might work as a weapon against their opponent.  The latest example is the attack on Corbyn for refusing to "single out the IRA for condemnation" when he refused to take sides in an interview, stating that "all bombing is bad".  

The DUP (and Tory sidekick) leader said the he was "beyond the political pale" for this.

What ?  For saying "All bombing is bad" and refusing to be forced into taking sides with her ??  Oh fuck off....  What do you think he's going to do ?  He's running for PM, we're less than three weeks before the General Election and you think he's a cnut because he is, in effect, criticising the attacks of both sides.

...and that's "beyond the political pale" is it ?

They're all at it - it's pathetic.

Drew_TNBD

Emp_Fab said:

Drew_TNBD said:

Emp_Fab said:

I went to their website, downloaded a copy of their manifesto, searched through it to find the bit that you didn't, told you the page number and quoted the text.  You then mock me and call me a liar.  I tell you that it's in the manifesto, and you ask me "Which page".  You even quoted the bit where I told you what page it was on !!

Now, either you're pissed or you're taking the piss - which is it ?

So which page??

You quote mining tindr troll!!

Here is the full quote:

In order to fund these commitments, we have taken an important decision. We do not believe that giving school lunches to all children free of charge for the first three years of primary school – regardless of the income of their parents – is a sensible use of public money. There is now good evidence that school breakfasts are at least as effective in helping children to make progress in school. So under a new Conservative government, schools in England will offer a free school breakfast to every child in every year of primary school, while children from low-income families will continue to receive free school lunches throughout their years in primary and secondary education. The savings made from this change will be added to the core schools budget, meaning that every penny saved will go towards children’s education.

Let me just emphasise the bit that you should've included for us all to read:

...while children from low-income families will continue to receive free school lunches throughout their years in primary and secondary education.

So...

A question:

- Why should a family who earn (for example) £45K a year also receive free school dinners??
- It looks like a family that earns £16K a year (again for example) will still receive free school dinners, so what is the problem with their approach exactly? The people WHO NEED assistance will still get it, and the people WHO DON'T NEED IT wont. And the saved money will go towards ... oh I dunno... the actual education maybe?!

The point is - your comment was not accurate and was not made in good faith whatsoever. And as I joked, you lied by omission.

I appreciate you pointing out the page number though. Because I legitimately didn't see it - must've been snowblind I suppose.

capo4th

I highlighted this fact about 7 pages ago but it got lost amongst the noise and fury of people would have to pay to feed their own children.

ICBM

Emp_Fab said:

Elections bring out the best in people don't they ?  Both sides trying their hardest to turn a complete non-event into something they think might work as a weapon against their opponent.  The latest example is the attack on Corbyn for refusing to "single out the IRA for condemnation" when he refused to take sides in an interview, stating that "all bombing is bad".  

The DUP (and Tory sidekick) leader said the he was "beyond the political pale" for this.

What ?  For saying "All bombing is bad" and refusing to be forced into taking sides with her ??  Oh fuck off....  What do you think he's going to do ?  He's running for PM, we're less than three weeks before the General Election and you think he's a cnut because he is, in effect, criticising the attacks of both sides.

...and that's "beyond the political pale" is it ?

They're all at it - it's pathetic.

... and the BBC is now running 'The Theresa May Story' - which you won't be surprised to find is almost entirely uncritical of her - on its front page. Can they be any more blatant?

Emp_Fab

Drew_TNBD said:

The point is - your comment was not accurate and was not made in good faith whatsoever. And as I joked, you lied by omission.

I appreciate you pointing out the page number though. Because I legitimately didn't see it - must've been snowblind I suppose.

It's a fair point.  It was in good faith as I never bothered to read any further than the bit you said you couldn't find !  I got you the page number, grabbed a bit of text that said "School meals... yada yada" and posted that.  You asked for the page number alone, I gave you the page number and a paste of their text which turned out not to be the entire text on that subject.  So, yeah, fair point, but snow-blindness rather than malicious intent.

So - this now begs the question; why has this caused a furore ?  Why have the likes of Jamie Oliver given interviews decrying these proposals ? - and the answer is not "because he's a cnut" or some other insult.  He may be many things, but he's not a moron - and he's not the only one.  There has to be something else to their objections.  Perhaps the "low-income families" is Toryish for "anyone earning less than £1,000,000 who doesn't have a Bentley" ?  I don't know.

It is odd though.... as I can see the logic in not providing free meals to the children of better-off families.  The only sticking points for me really are that doing so will create a culture of the 'haves' and 'have nots' in schools and the "poor" kids line up for their bowl of gruel in the workhouse whilst the "rich" kids get their lobster sandwiches out and crack open the Chateau-de-orangejuice.  That could be stigmatising.  Second is the line where "low-income families" is placed.

Emp_Fab

capo4th said:

I highlighted this fact about 7 pages ago but it got lost amongst the noise and fury of people would have to pay to feed their own children.

Everytime you speak, I'm going to put up another Labour poster in your name.    

ICBM

Getting free school meals is a massive social stigma for children because it instantly labels them as low-income. The only way to avoid it is to have them available for all children. The cost of take-up by those few who don't really need them but still take them is trivial.

Fretwired

ICBM said:

... and the BBC is now running 'The Theresa May Story' - which you won't be surprised to find is almost entirely uncritical of her - on its front page. Can they be any more blatant?

Not sure what you listen to but she was heavily criticised on R4 earlier - the Tory ranks are breaking, Boris says they will change some polices - the Tories are in free fall. What they and the Lib Dems didn't bargain on was the fact that people are bored of Brexit. The NHS hack and Tory policies have lost them millions of votes ... and even Ruth Davidson lost it on TV with Sturgeon.

Could be back to 2010 with a stalemate or low Tory majority unless the Tory Party gets its arse in gear.

Garthy

Emp_Fab said:

Talking of the nasty party....  I've just read that they are planning on scrapping the ban on the ivory trade.  http://evolvepolitics.com/theresa-mays-tory-manifesto-scraps-ban-elephant-ivory-sales-bowing-millionaire-antique-lobbyist/

If that's true, what the fuck is going on ?  Who are these people ?

Well you are certainly gullible.

Fretwired

Nick Clegg labelled 'hypocrite' as he criticises Labour for pledging to abolish tuition fees. Clegg has been the subject of scorn after criticising the Labour Party's plans to abolish tuition fees.

He was accused of being "shameless" and a "hypocrite" as he spoke on Monday's Radio 4 Today programme  to give his insight into what young people want.

Mr Clegg said that instead of wanting "loads of free stuff", young people want to talk about Brexit — and slammed Labour's plan to abolish tuition fees, commenting: "I personally think it is the wrong choice now".

He also claimed the Labour Party is peddling "hyped up, retail politics".

Goodbye Lib Dem party .. what a twat.

DarnWeight

So, old news in some quarters, but I wonder why there's little press coverage of currently serving Tory councillor Maria Gatland and her openly-admitted past as a member of the provisional IRA.  It's almost like it would highlight some awful hypocrisy at the heart of the Conservative party and its friends in the media...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_Gatland  

Drew_TNBD

ICBM said:

Getting free school meals is a massive social stigma for children because it instantly labels them as low-income. The only way to avoid it is to have them available for all children. The cost of take-up by those few who don't really need them but still take them is trivial.

Sorry dudes but I am not buying it. Before 2000 when I left school I was from a low income family, single mother, etc... etc... I had free school dinners as did many of my friends. We never felt stigmatized at all. Honestly?? We were just happy to have free cakes and pizza!!

We'd all have a dinner card and you had to present that at the till. It got you a main meal, a snack, and a pudding of sorts. The thing that pissed us off the most was when we couldn't trade our healthy snack of a fruit cup for another cake. But that was about it.

Kids are way more resilient than you're giving them credit for I think.

But even if they're not, there are way more things I'd want to solve to prevent any stigma before getting to school lunches.

joeyowen

May is in North Wales today.  I did try to find out where but that is a bigggg secret.  I can't find the info anywhere.

I'm not anti Tory, but it would be nice if I could go question some things.

TheBigDipper

ICBM said:

Getting free school meals is a massive social stigma for children because it instantly labels them as low-income. The only way to avoid it is to have them available for all children. The cost of take-up by those few who don't really need them but still take them is trivial.

Something I read last week was a comment from a head teacher. He wasn't supportive of this because all it did was give him problems. Instead of every child sitting down together for lunch - an activity that he likes because it promotes social cohesion within the school - he is now faced with finding and paying for staff who will come in early to work in the kitchen and monitor the dining hall. He won't get to save any staff costs over the lunch period. He doesn't think all children will bother to come in for their free breakfast, either.

So, some of the money "saved" will need to be spent elsewhere on a purpose that this head teacher doesn't value. I suspect there was no consultation with schools before deciding on this policy. 

@ICBM As you say, it's never too early to remind children of their lowly place in life. Equal opportunities, my A**e...

Fretwired

Why people are turning against May ... she needs to up her game.

Drew_TNBD

TheBigDipper said:

ICBM said:

Getting free school meals is a massive social stigma for children because it instantly labels them as low-income. The only way to avoid it is to have them available for all children. The cost of take-up by those few who don't really need them but still take them is trivial.

Something I read last week was a comment from a head teacher. He wasn't supportive of this because all it did was give him problems. Instead of every child sitting down together for lunch - an activity that he likes because it promotes social cohesion within the school - he is now faced with finding and paying for staff who will come in early to work in the kitchen and monitor the dining hall. He won't get to save any staff costs over the lunch period. He doesn't think all children will bother to come in for their free breakfast, either.

So, some of the money "saved" will need to be spent elsewhere on a purpose that this head teacher doesn't value. I suspect there was no consultation with schools before deciding on this policy. 

@ICBM As you say, it's never too early to remind children of their lowly place in life. Equal opportunities, my A**e...

Are you seriously suggesting that reducing the number of kids having free lunches means his staff costs for dinner ladies and kitchen staff will go up? I'd love to know how. I really would, because that makes no sense whatsoever.

As for all the kids sitting down, social cohesion blahblahblah.... it's bullshit. There is no social cohesion at schools. There are tribes and tribes and tribes. \

And it's not about reminding anyone of their lowly place in life. What the hell are you basing that on!?

Garthy

We're going to hell in a handcart on the back of a Facebook meme campaign...

Fretwired

Garthy said:

We're going to hell in a handcart on the back of a Facebook meme campaign...

Here's the Times .. similar themes .. where's the anti-Corbyn bias now?

Fretwired

Drew_TNBD said:

TheBigDipper said:

ICBM said:

Getting free school meals is a massive social stigma for children because it instantly labels them as low-income. The only way to avoid it is to have them available for all children. The cost of take-up by those few who don't really need them but still take them is trivial.

Something I read last week was a comment from a head teacher. He wasn't supportive of this because all it did was give him problems. Instead of every child sitting down together for lunch - an activity that he likes because it promotes social cohesion within the school - he is now faced with finding and paying for staff who will come in early to work in the kitchen and monitor the dining hall. He won't get to save any staff costs over the lunch period. He doesn't think all children will bother to come in for their free breakfast, either.

So, some of the money "saved" will need to be spent elsewhere on a purpose that this head teacher doesn't value. I suspect there was no consultation with schools before deciding on this policy. 

@ICBM As you say, it's never too early to remind children of their lowly place in life. Equal opportunities, my A**e...

Are you seriously suggesting that reducing the number of kids having free lunches means his staff costs for dinner ladies and kitchen staff will go up? I'd love to know how. I really would, because that makes no sense whatsoever.

As for all the kids sitting down, social cohesion blahblahblah.... it's bullshit. There is no social cohesion at schools. There are tribes and tribes and tribes. \

And it's not about reminding anyone of their lowly place in life. What the hell are you basing that on!?

I think he is referring to breakfast (the comment about early staff etc.).

Drew_TNBD

DarnWeight said:

So, old news in some quarters, but I wonder why there's little press coverage of currently serving Tory councillor Maria Gatland and her openly-admitted past as a member of the provisional IRA.  It's almost like it would highlight some awful hypocrisy at the heart of the Conservative party and its friends in the media...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_Gatland  

Nope. We all know it's totally acceptable to have past sympathies with terrorist organisations. That seems to be the party line when it comes to Corbyn and Sadiq anyway.