The Theresa May General Election thread (edited)

Drew_TNBD

Fretwired said:

Drew_TNBD said:

TheBigDipper said:

ICBM said:

Getting free school meals is a massive social stigma for children because it instantly labels them as low-income. The only way to avoid it is to have them available for all children. The cost of take-up by those few who don't really need them but still take them is trivial.

Something I read last week was a comment from a head teacher. He wasn't supportive of this because all it did was give him problems. Instead of every child sitting down together for lunch - an activity that he likes because it promotes social cohesion within the school - he is now faced with finding and paying for staff who will come in early to work in the kitchen and monitor the dining hall. He won't get to save any staff costs over the lunch period. He doesn't think all children will bother to come in for their free breakfast, either.

So, some of the money "saved" will need to be spent elsewhere on a purpose that this head teacher doesn't value. I suspect there was no consultation with schools before deciding on this policy. 

@ICBM As you say, it's never too early to remind children of their lowly place in life. Equal opportunities, my A**e...

Are you seriously suggesting that reducing the number of kids having free lunches means his staff costs for dinner ladies and kitchen staff will go up? I'd love to know how. I really would, because that makes no sense whatsoever.

As for all the kids sitting down, social cohesion blahblahblah.... it's bullshit. There is no social cohesion at schools. There are tribes and tribes and tribes. \

And it's not about reminding anyone of their lowly place in life. What the hell are you basing that on!?

I think he is referring to breakfast (the comment about early staff etc.).

Ah okay, that makes sense. It just didn't read that way.

Garthy

Fretwired said:

Garthy said:

We're going to hell in a handcart on the back of a Facebook meme campaign...

Here's the Times .. similar themes .. where's the anti-Corbyn bias now?

I'd say it's a very accurate summary of events. Corbyn will probably win off the back of the social media campaign. 

DarnWeight

Drew_TNBD said:

DarnWeight said:

So, old news in some quarters, but I wonder why there's little press coverage of currently serving Tory councillor Maria Gatland and her openly-admitted past as a member of the provisional IRA.  It's almost like it would highlight some awful hypocrisy at the heart of the Conservative party and its friends in the media...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_Gatland  

Nope. We all know it's totally acceptable to have past sympathies with terrorist organisations. That seems to be the party line when it comes to Corbyn and Sadiq anyway.

If you want to get down to the nuts-and-bolts, you could argue that there's a bit of a difference between "sharing a platform", and "going on a gun-running mission".

Drew_TNBD

DarnWeight said:

Drew_TNBD said:

DarnWeight said:

So, old news in some quarters, but I wonder why there's little press coverage of currently serving Tory councillor Maria Gatland and her openly-admitted past as a member of the provisional IRA.  It's almost like it would highlight some awful hypocrisy at the heart of the Conservative party and its friends in the media...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_Gatland  

Nope. We all know it's totally acceptable to have past sympathies with terrorist organisations. That seems to be the party line when it comes to Corbyn and Sadiq anyway.

If you want to get down to the nuts-and-bolts, you could argue that there's a bit of a difference between "sharing a platform", and "going on a gun-running mission".

Well if even half of this true:
http://www.croydonadvertiser.co.uk/revealed-maria-gatland-s-life-ira-words/story-11363460-detail/story.html

She should probably go to jail.

ICBM

Drew_TNBD said:

Sorry dudes but I am not buying it. Before 2000 when I left school I was from a low income family, single mother, etc... etc... I had free school dinners as did many of my friends. We never felt stigmatized at all.

Sorry mate, but I'm on the Parent Councils of both the primary and high schools my kids go to, and I can guarantee you that it is a very serious issue for some kids and some parents.

ICBM

Fretwired said:

ICBM said:

... and the BBC is now running 'The Theresa May Story' - which you won't be surprised to find is almost entirely uncritical of her - on its front page. Can they be any more blatant?

Not sure what you listen to

It was on the front page of the BBC News website this morning. Curiously it seems to have disappeared now...

TheBigDipper

Drew_TNBD said:

Fretwired said:

Drew_TNBD said:

TheBigDipper said:

ICBM said:

Getting free school meals is a massive social stigma for children because it instantly labels them as low-income. The only way to avoid it is to have them available for all children. The cost of take-up by those few who don't really need them but still take them is trivial.

Something I read last week was a comment from a head teacher. He wasn't supportive of this because all it did was give him problems. Instead of every child sitting down together for lunch - an activity that he likes because it promotes social cohesion within the school - he is now faced with finding and paying for staff who will come in early to work in the kitchen and monitor the dining hall. He won't get to save any staff costs over the lunch period. He doesn't think all children will bother to come in for their free breakfast, either.

So, some of the money "saved" will need to be spent elsewhere on a purpose that this head teacher doesn't value. I suspect there was no consultation with schools before deciding on this policy. 

@ICBM As you say, it's never too early to remind children of their lowly place in life. Equal opportunities, my A**e...

Are you seriously suggesting that reducing the number of kids having free lunches means his staff costs for dinner ladies and kitchen staff will go up? I'd love to know how. I really would, because that makes no sense whatsoever.

As for all the kids sitting down, social cohesion blahblahblah.... it's bullshit. There is no social cohesion at schools. There are tribes and tribes and tribes. \

And it's not about reminding anyone of their lowly place in life. What the hell are you basing that on!?

I think he is referring to breakfast (the comment about early staff etc.).

Ah okay, that makes sense. It just didn't read that way.

Yes, the head teacher was saying he'd need to recruit extra staff to cover an extra period of time (for making and serving breakfast) because the existing staff would still need to be around at lunchtime. 

As far as your view on social cohesion - that's your view based on your experiences in life. The head teacher seems to feel differently. My experiences in life make me more sympathetic to his point of view. The head is just talking about primary schools - specifically his own one. I don't remember being that tribal when I was aged 7, but maybe you do. We've all had different experiences that shape our opinions and actions, don't we. 

Your response to my last comment gets "the blues" answer. "If you have to ask, then you're never going to know"... 

You've shared some of your background with us as part of this discussion and clearly are at ease with it and how things worked out for you. Great. Your perception is that there isn't a problem. It wasn't a problem for me, either. I don't think everyone would agree with you or feel that was how they felt at the time. 

Drew_TNBD

ICBM said:

Drew_TNBD said:

Sorry dudes but I am not buying it. Before 2000 when I left school I was from a low income family, single mother, etc... etc... I had free school dinners as did many of my friends. We never felt stigmatized at all.

Sorry mate, but I'm on the Parent Councils of both the primary and high schools my kids go to, and I can guarantee you that it is a very serious issue for some kids and some parents.

Free lunches on their own are not a source of stigma. Maybe as a combination of factors such as not being able to wear the official school uniform, not being able to go on school trips, not having the same level of quality PE kit as the rest of the kids, and probably a dozen other factors.

But typically the kids experiencing those things ARE from low-income backgrounds. Reality shouldn't be a cause for stigma. What they need is a compassionate approach and by giving everyone free lunches regardless of background you're in danger of sending the message that no-one truly cares about their issues or their situations. What you're saying is "here kid, patch your shitty life up with a free slice of pizza" - which is probably the least compassionate thing to do in this situation.

Drew_TNBD

TheBigDipper said:

As far as your view on social cohesion - that's your view based on your experiences in life. The head teacher seems to feel differently. My experiences in life make me more sympathetic to his point of view. The head is just talking about primary schools - specifically his own one. I don't remember being that tribal when I was aged 7, but maybe you do. We've all had different experiences that shape our opinions and actions, don't we. 

Your response to my last comment gets "the blues" answer. "If you have to ask, then you're never going to know"... 

You've shared some of your background with us as part of this discussion and clearly are at ease with it and how things worked out for you. Great. Your perception is that there isn't a problem. It wasn't a problem for me, either. I don't think everyone would agree with you or feel that was how they felt at the time.

Are you kidding me? I want to kill myself most days and struggle to get out of bed and drag myself into the world. At ease... yeah sure! You know nothing about me. If you want to know I don't mind telling. But don't presume to know where my head is at and what my life is like because you read a few posts of mine.

So how old are you out interest? I'm 32. When I was at school the kids were heavily tribal. The sporty kids didn't mix with the weirdos and would bully them. The weirdos would bully the nerdy kids, and the nerdy kids would sit there and seeth and develop mental health problems. The teachers would play favourites, to the point where if you had a fight on the playground with one of the popular sporty types and they started it, you'd be the one in trouble. There very definitely was a lot of 'us and them' mentality between the kids at my middle and secondary schools. It affected a lot of kids differently.

I think there are very big problems in schools actually. I've spoke about them a fair bit on this site. I don't believe limiting free school lunches to the kids that need them and recovering funds from the ones that don't is a big problem. I can even give some ground and say that it *could* be a problem - but not a big one that should get all the focus and priority.

I basically think it's a fairly sensible policy that is being twisted by anti-Conservative zealots who will stop at nothing to tear down a party they disagree with. That shouldn't be how politically minded people work.

capo4th

I remember a time when MPs used to be respected older wiser citizens. It now seems we have too many "career" politicians who are in it for themselves rather than the communities they serve and this applies to all parties.

rocktron

BREAKING NEWS: Theresa May U-turn on Dementia Tax 

capo4th

DarnWeight said:

So, old news in some quarters, but I wonder why there's little press coverage of currently serving Tory councillor Maria Gatland and her openly-admitted past as a member of the provisional IRA.  It's almost like it would highlight some awful hypocrisy at the heart of the Conservative party and its friends in the media...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_Gatland  

Don't forget to highlight the Labour councillors in Rochdale who provide character references for convicted paedophiles and child rapists.

capo4th

Drew_TNBD said:

TheBigDipper said:

ICBM said:

Getting free school meals is a massive social stigma for children because it instantly labels them as low-income. The only way to avoid it is to have them available for all children. The cost of take-up by those few who don't really need them but still take them is trivial.

Something I read last week was a comment from a head teacher. He wasn't supportive of this because all it did was give him problems. Instead of every child sitting down together for lunch - an activity that he likes because it promotes social cohesion within the school - he is now faced with finding and paying for staff who will come in early to work in the kitchen and monitor the dining hall. He won't get to save any staff costs over the lunch period. He doesn't think all children will bother to come in for their free breakfast, either.

So, some of the money "saved" will need to be spent elsewhere on a purpose that this head teacher doesn't value. I suspect there was no consultation with schools before deciding on this policy. 

@ICBM As you say, it's never too early to remind children of their lowly place in life. Equal opportunities, my A**e...

Are you seriously suggesting that reducing the number of kids having free lunches means his staff costs for dinner ladies and kitchen staff will go up? I'd love to know how. I really would, because that makes no sense whatsoever.

As for all the kids sitting down, social cohesion blahblahblah.... it's bullshit. There is no social cohesion at schools. There are tribes and tribes and tribes. \

And it's not about reminding anyone of their lowly place in life. What the hell are you basing that on!?

Too right I had free school meals at school I think it was mentioned once in two different schools.
Parents should feed their children if they can't afford to it will be provided.

capo4th

rocktron said:

BREAKING NEWS: Theresa May U-turn on Dementia Tax 

It will be forgotton in a matter of hours !

ICBM

Drew_TNBD said:

ICBM said:

Drew_TNBD said:

Sorry dudes but I am not buying it. Before 2000 when I left school I was from a low income family, single mother, etc... etc... I had free school dinners as did many of my friends. We never felt stigmatized at all.

Sorry mate, but I'm on the Parent Councils of both the primary and high schools my kids go to, and I can guarantee you that it is a very serious issue for some kids and some parents.

Free lunches on their own are not a source of stigma. Maybe as a combination of factors

...

What you're saying is "here kid, patch your shitty life up with a free slice of pizza" - which is probably the least compassionate thing to do in this situation.

No, what I'm telling you is that free school meals - ie other kids being aware of who gets them - *is* a serious issue for some parents. Speaking as someone who has to reflect these concerns and represent them to the school management.

I agree that there are other factors as well, but the free meals is one of the most visible and causes significant worry for both the kids and the parents.

For what it's worth, when your daughter is old enough I would strongly recommend you get onto her school's Parent Council. Parents have real influence nowadays and can make an important difference. It's more rewarding than you might think too.

Garthy

capo4th said:

rocktron said:

BREAKING NEWS: Theresa May U-turn on Dementia Tax 

It will be forgotton in a matter of hours !

This is her poll tax moment, I think they're fucked.

capo4th

ICBM said:

Drew_TNBD said:

ICBM said:

Drew_TNBD said:

Sorry dudes but I am not buying it. Before 2000 when I left school I was from a low income family, single mother, etc... etc... I had free school dinners as did many of my friends. We never felt stigmatized at all.

Sorry mate, but I'm on the Parent Councils of both the primary and high schools my kids go to, and I can guarantee you that it is a very serious issue for some kids and some parents.

Free lunches on their own are not a source of stigma. Maybe as a combination of factors

...

What you're saying is "here kid, patch your shitty life up with a free slice of pizza" - which is probably the least compassionate thing to do in this situation.

No, what I'm telling you is that free school meals - ie other kids being aware of who gets them - *is* a serious issue for some parents. Speaking as someone who has to reflect these concerns and represent them to the school management.

I agree that there are other factors as well, but the free meals is one of the most visible and causes significant worry for both the kids and the parents.

For what it's worth, when your daughter is old enough I would strongly recommend you get onto her school's Parent Council. Parents have real influence nowadays and can make an important difference. It's more rewarding than you might think too.

I am on the board of governors at a state school and I aminvolved with the parents association at my sons school. 

I think the adults are making it a bigger issue at your school than the kids IMHO

The subject has never cropped up in 2 years and as someone who received free school meals I never encountered a problem.

Fretwired

May's new slogan ...

Weak and wobbly

Snap

Christ, doing a u'ey on a big manifesto element, within a week of publishing it is piss poor organisation.

Wtf is wrong with our political system FFS? Its like Battle of the Berks. In the red corner we have Komrade Korbyn with his terrorist sympathising neo communist Stalin admiring berks ANnnnnnnnnddddddddddddd in the red corner we have Mutable May with her poclicy making on the fly, blowing in the wind decision making, whatever the fk should we do next party.

EIther way, whichever wins, won't they do a stellar job getting us through Brexit?

Christ, it makes me think Tim Farron would be the answer. That's bad.

Jalapeno

Fretwired said:

May's new slogan ...

Weak and wobbly

Perhaps also Consult & Agree think she was experiencing open revolt over Demetia Tax as it clearly wasn't discussed by Cabinet or Grandees.