That Manifesto is finally out

Garthy

Fretwired said:

mellowsun said:

Fretwired said:

Fully costed my arse ... some economists are saying there's a £30 billion black hole between revenue and expenditure.

I'm off to get a German passport .. :-)

You said elsewhere (Speaker's Corner?) that you liked a lot of the stuff in the leaked manifesto and were planning on voting Labour. Which one's the joke?

I did and it wasn't a joke - for example scrapping uni fees, tax on high earners for cash for the NHS, building affordable homes  .... borrowing eye watering amounts of money to buy back the power and water companies is just dumb as is hitting companies with more tax.

More to the point, how do you buy something that someone doesn't want to sell?

Fretwired

Garthy said:

More to the point, how do you buy something that someone doesn't want to sell?

Nationalisation through compulsory purchase order ... if we have relations with the EU it could be referred to the ECJ.

Snap

Garthy said:

Fretwired said:

mellowsun said:

Fretwired said:

Fully costed my arse ... some economists are saying there's a £30 billion black hole between revenue and expenditure.

I'm off to get a German passport .. :-)

You said elsewhere (Speaker's Corner?) that you liked a lot of the stuff in the leaked manifesto and were planning on voting Labour. Which one's the joke?

I did and it wasn't a joke - for example scrapping uni fees, tax on high earners for cash for the NHS, building affordable homes  .... borrowing eye watering amounts of money to buy back the power and water companies is just dumb as is hitting companies with more tax.

More to the point, how do you buy something that someone doesn't want to sell?

you just look at what any 20th century dicatorship did really, then apply some of the learnings, do a smash a grab. Still, makes good soundbites, even if you haven't really got a friggin clue how you will do it, or when, or on what terms. But then, there will be so much else going on, not least covering up your Home Secretary's daily gaffes, that you won't get round to doing anything about it.

digitalscream

I must say...with all of this now out there, my most optimistic hope is for a Lib/Lab coalition. The Lib Dems should blunt most of the damage that Corbyn can do to the country by forcing an awful lot of inertia while the Tories ditch May, find somebody a bit closer to the centre and make Corbyn a one-term PM.

Snap

Are these lot for real?

Shadow business secretary Rebecca Long-Bailey says renationalising the railways would be a capital expenditure so "wouldn't form part of spending plans".

She says the government could take out a low-interest loan to buy back the franchises and that wouldn't cost the taxpayer any money.

You would be increasing borrowing though, it's put to her, perhaps by £70bn?

"Well, £32bn was a reasonable amount that I'd heard from one particular expert, but it's a matter for negotiation," Ms Long-Bailey replies.

So, not making it up on the hoof at all then.....what's £38bn between friends?

Its actually embarrassing

CabbageCat

Legionreturns said:

...including a costing document which allows a margin for error of £4bn. 

Have to say, the speech was excellent. I wonder what it will sound like once the BBC have "edited" it!

Would you consider yourself an unbiased source?

Fretwired

digitalscream said:

I must say...with all of this now out there, my most optimistic hope is for a Lib/Lab coalition. The Lib Dems should blunt most of the damage that Corbyn can do to the country by forcing an awful lot of inertia while the Tories ditch May, find somebody a bit closer to the centre and make Corbyn a one-term PM.

The Lib Dems won't enter a coalition in a hurry. They will quietly pray for a Labour civil war and could look to pinch some Labour MPs and then take Labour voters at the next election.

A coalition with Labour would be like climbing onto the Titanic just as everyone else was taking to the lifeboats. The Blairites will blunt Corbyn's plans.

Garthy

Every single party has said they won't enter a coalition with Labour. None have ruled out a coalition with anyone else, just Labour.

digitalscream

Fretwired said:

digitalscream said:

I must say...with all of this now out there, my most optimistic hope is for a Lib/Lab coalition. The Lib Dems should blunt most of the damage that Corbyn can do to the country by forcing an awful lot of inertia while the Tories ditch May, find somebody a bit closer to the centre and make Corbyn a one-term PM.

The Lib Dems shouldn't enter a coalition in a hurry. They should quietly pray for a Labour civil war and could look to pinch some Labour MPs and then take Labour voters at the next election.

A coalition with Labour would be like climbing onto the Titanic just as everyone else was taking to the lifeboats, but they'll probably do it anyway because it's the closest they'll get to power for another decade or two.

Fixed that for you

Seriously, the Lib Dems' only function nowadays is as kingmakers in close races, and I think they know it.

Legionreturns

CabbageCat said:

Legionreturns said:

...including a costing document which allows a margin for error of £4bn. 

Have to say, the speech was excellent. I wonder what it will sound like once the BBC have "edited" it!

Would you consider yourself an unbiased source?

Not in the slightest. Am I required to be to have an opinion? 

As a matter of fact, I wouldn't even consider myself a source. I was commenting on the launch and giving my opinion. 

Honestly? If Labour were elected, which they won't be, I shouldn't imagine they'll get even half of that through. I'd be happy with some of the policies making it into law but not optimistic in this climate. What it does show is that their aspirations align broadly with mine. 

As someone who works in education, I've seen all I need to see from the other lot. It's a bloody mess. I voted Green last time and Lib Dem the time before that. This time, the policies I've seen and the way Corbyn speaks and obviously cares lead me to want to vote Labour. 

Fretwired

digitalscream said:

Fixed that for you

Seriously, the Lib Dems' only function nowadays is as kingmakers in close races, and I think they know it.

Go tell Tim. He is of the opinion that another coalition could kill the party. The Lib Dems could always support Labour on certain policies. That's what Clegg wishes he'd done .. hindsight is a great thing.

holnrew

mellowsun said:

The Plaid Cymru manifesto is out today also.

They have promised to protect Wales from the effects of them voting for Brexit. You couldn't make this stuff up.

No different to anything to SNP is promising... But granted Scotland voted remain. Still though, as an area with a lot of farming and deprived areas that received EU funding it makes a lot of sense. I like Leanne Wood tbh.

holnrew

Fretwired said:

digitalscream said:

Fixed that for you

Seriously, the Lib Dems' only function nowadays is as kingmakers in close races, and I think they know it.

Go tell Tim. He is of the opinion that another coalition could kill the party. The Lib Dems could always support Labour on certain policies. That's what Clegg wishes he'd done .. hindsight is a great thing.

That's what I wished Clegg had done. No idea why he did what he did. Who knows at the last GE they could have grown to 100+ MPs and we wouldn't be in the current situation.

Snap

Scotland, Wales, they are forgetting that they are a part of the UK. Hey, the people in my constituency voted Remain too, we need independence!

Bull Shit: the country , the UK voted, we stand or fall together.

LoFi

holnrew said:

That's what I wished Clegg had done. No idea why he did what he did. Who knows at the last GE they could have grown to 100+ MPs and we wouldn't be in the current situation.

He said at the time that he didn't feel he could go into coalition with Labour as the Cons had more seats (and the Cons wouldn't have agreed to Labour forming a minority government with LD support on a case-by-case basis).

If he hadn't agreed to a full coalition with the Tories, he wouldn't have got his AV Referendum through, which was his single biggest priority.

EDIT: The phrase I was looking for was "Confidence and Supply", rather than case-by-case.

holnrew

Snap said:

Scotland, Wales, they are forgetting that they are a part of the UK. Hey, the people in my constituency voted Remain too, we need independence!

Bull Shit: the country , the UK voted, we stand or fall together.

I think more local governence is the way forward. It's too London focused. I felt disenfranchised in the south west and the north east, now I'm in Wales I'm happy to have more than just one MP out of hundreds fighting for the area. Although Welsh Labour haven't done their job particularly well.

digitalscream

LoFi said:

If he hadn't agreed to a full coalition with the Tories, he wouldn't have got his AV Referendum through, which was his single biggest priority.

Otherwise known as "Losing the war to win the battle".

Fretwired

Infighting among Labour activists. It seems the manifesto doesn't mention the benefits freeze introduced by the Tories. Some have pointed out that the benefits freeze for struggling families could be mostly reversed if the promise to end tuition fees was scrapped - the cost of abolishing these has been costed at £11.2bn.

Because of this, Jeremy Corbyn has been accused of prioritising students over the working poor.

More votes lost?

 

digitalscream

Fretwired said:

Infighting among Labour activists. It seems the manifesto doesn't mention the benefits freeze introduced by the Tories. Some have pointed out that the benefits freeze for struggling families could be mostly reversed if the promise to end tuition fees was scrapped - the cost of abolishing these has been costed at £11.2bn.

Because of this, Jeremy Corbyn has been accused of prioritising students over the working poor.

More votes lost?

I don't know why they're quibbling over £11bn; that's not much more than a rounding error in their "calculations".

Then again, since he's never done a day's work outside politics in his entire life, they might have a point.

stickyfiddle

I have no problem prioritising students, as a well-educated population benefits everyone (except perhaps those with snouts in government troughs), but I don't know that universities are the most important place to achieve that.