That Manifesto is finally out

ICBM

LoFi said:

If he hadn't agreed to a full coalition with the Tories, he wouldn't have got his AV Referendum through, which was his single biggest priority.

And then Cameron dug a great big pit which said "Trap: Walk This Way" right above it, and Clegg merrily danced straight into it.

holnrew

stickyfiddle said:

I have no problem prioritising students, as a well-educated population benefits everyone (except perhaps those with snouts in government troughs), but I don't know that universities are the most important place to achieve that. 

I think looking into online learning would be a good thing. Especially for poorer families and those already in work. University is good for some things, but many subjects can be done without lab work and face to face contact.

Fretwired

holnrew said:

stickyfiddle said:

I have no problem prioritising students, as a well-educated population benefits everyone (except perhaps those with snouts in government troughs), but I don't know that universities are the most important place to achieve that. 

I think looking into online learning would be a good thing. Especially for poorer families and those already in work. University is good for some things, but many subjects can be done without lab work and face to face contact.

Local colleges and polytechnics could help - it means poorer students can stay at home and not incur hefty living expenses. I also think learning with others has benefits.

holnrew

Fretwired said:

holnrew said:

stickyfiddle said:

I have no problem prioritising students, as a well-educated population benefits everyone (except perhaps those with snouts in government troughs), but I don't know that universities are the most important place to achieve that. 

I think looking into online learning would be a good thing. Especially for poorer families and those already in work. University is good for some things, but many subjects can be done without lab work and face to face contact.

Local colleges and polytechnics could help - it means poorer students can stay at home and not incur hefty living expenses. I also think learning with others has benefits.

Yeah true. I hate learning with others, but I'm social phobic

capo4th

holnrew said:

Snap said:

Scotland, Wales, they are forgetting that they are a part of the UK. Hey, the people in my constituency voted Remain too, we need independence!

Bull Shit: the country , the UK voted, we stand or fall together.

I think more local governence is the way forward. It's too London focused. I felt disenfranchised in the south west and the north east, now I'm in Wales I'm happy to have more than just one MP out of hundreds fighting for the area. Although Welsh Labour haven't done their job particularly well.

Have you tried the Welsh NHS ? Extreamly well run by Labour very efficient from what I hear ..... 

holnrew

capo4th said:

holnrew said:

Snap said:

Scotland, Wales, they are forgetting that they are a part of the UK. Hey, the people in my constituency voted Remain too, we need independence!

Bull Shit: the country , the UK voted, we stand or fall together.

I think more local governence is the way forward. It's too London focused. I felt disenfranchised in the south west and the north east, now I'm in Wales I'm happy to have more than just one MP out of hundreds fighting for the area. Although Welsh Labour haven't done their job particularly well.

Have you tried the Welsh NHS ? Extreamly well run by Labour very efficient from what I hear ..... 

I can taste the sarcasm haha

holnrew

I'm trying to find an NHS dentist that accepts benefit scum like me and the nearest is Swansea, 2 hours twenty away on the train...

digitalscream

Fretwired said:

holnrew said:

stickyfiddle said:

I have no problem prioritising students, as a well-educated population benefits everyone (except perhaps those with snouts in government troughs), but I don't know that universities are the most important place to achieve that. 

I think looking into online learning would be a good thing. Especially for poorer families and those already in work. University is good for some things, but many subjects can be done without lab work and face to face contact.

Local colleges and polytechnics could help - it means poorer students can stay at home and not incur hefty living expenses. I also think learning with others has benefits.

The problem with that is you get what happened to my wife - she did a degree at the local college (in association with East Anglia Uni, I think), and it was basically just a case of "bums on seats, college pockets the cash". They weren't taught anything, had to provide all their own materials (seriously - the college sent them all a bill for nearly a grand every year for use of the facilities, and the materials "provided" which they weren't actually allowed to use because the college used that money to fund the A-level courses) and came out without any experience or knowledge remotely usable in the jobs they were training for (graphic design). Lectures and tutor sessions essentially consisted of being sat in front of a computer watching video tutorials on how to use Photoshop.

Fretwired

digitalscream said:

The problem with that is you get what happened to my wife - she did a degree at the local college (in association with East Anglia Uni, I think), and it was basically just a case of "bums on seats, college pockets the cash". They weren't taught anything, had to provide all their own materials (seriously - the college sent them all a bill for nearly a grand every year for use of the facilities, and the materials "provided" which they weren't actually allowed to use because the college used that money to fund the A-level courses) and came out without any experience or knowledge remotely usable in the jobs they were training for (graphic design). Lectures and tutor sessions essentially consisted of being sat in front of a computer watching video tutorials on how to use Photoshop.

I've seen that. It needs to change. I did a lot of work on the future of education and one of the things that came out of it is how we get education so wrong. Standards need to rise and courses need to reflect people's aptitude and what society and employers require. University should be for those with academic ability.  Sending 55% of the population to uni is wrong. It just devalues a degree.

The Germans copied our education system from the 50s and 60s - we should relearn and reimplement the best parts which involves an emphasis on maths, science, computing and engineering for what the Germans call the 'technical class' and bringing pack polytechnics offering rigorous courses that employers value which leads to well-paid jobs. Life long learning should mean you can go back and get a degree or a PhD if you have the aptitude.

holnrew

The daft thing is that I wasn't allowed to do a "full time" Level 3 qualification on sickness benefits, and there's no student loans for that level of study, but at the same time I could work up to 16 hours a week and still claim (at a reduced rate). The teaching hours were unlikely to have been close to 16 hours and it would have given me more confidence and made me more employable for times when I'm feeling better. They don't allow it for job seekers claimants either. The DWP's idea of making you employable is to grind you down so much a zero hours slave wage becomes enticing.

It's almost as if the government doesn't want a highly skilled, educated workforce

Clarky

to be honest… even if Labour's plans costed in perfectly to build our new utopia, I'd never vote for them so long as there is even a remote chance that someone as vile, hateful and incompetent as Diane Abbott can get anywhere near a decision making position..
she alone is reason enough to avoid Labour like the plague

Legionreturns

Clarky said:

to be honest… even if Labour's plans costed in perfectly to build our new utopia, I'd never vote for them so long as there is even a remote chance that someone as vile, hateful and incompetent as Diane Abbott can get anywhere near a decision making position..
she alone is reason enough to avoid Labour like the plague

And there's nobody on the blue side of the house that matches that description, or worse?

Clarky

Legionreturns said:

Clarky said:

to be honest… even if Labour's plans costed in perfectly to build our new utopia, I'd never vote for them so long as there is even a remote chance that someone as vile, hateful and incompetent as Diane Abbott can get anywhere near a decision making position..
she alone is reason enough to avoid Labour like the plague

And there's nobody on the blue side of the house that matches that description, or worse?

I'm not sure it's possible to get any worse…

in truth, I really have no idea who to vote for this time around

capo4th

Diane Abbott a revolting stupid monster of a woman who doesn't know her times tables.

Can you imagine her as Home Secretary negotiating our position?

Absolutley terrifying !

viz

Has anyone tried ISideWith? It said I side 92% with the party I intend to vote for, perhaps unsurprisingly. It's quite good. 

fields5069

I like the idea of a National Education Service. I'm not sure my Spanish wife will be able to get her job back with the council after Brexit though. Doh. Good luck finding a British person with a good enough foreign language and a love of low wages. Even my daughter's Spanish teacher in school is pretty crap, and she's taught A-level FFS.

fields5069

capo4th said:

Diane Abbott a revolting stupid monster of a woman who doesn't know her times tables.

Can you imagine her as Home Secretary negotiating our position?

Absolutley terrifying !

I can't help thinking they're copying. A revolting woman? As Home Secretary? Why, it's been done before! As long as Diane doesn't fuck up as much as Theresa then we may be OK.

capo4th

Uh oh a forumite who thinks Diane Abbott has a brain

Philly_Q

viz said:

Has anyone tried ISideWith? It said I side 92% with the party I intend to vote for, perhaps unsurprisingly. It's quite good. 

Never heard of it, but I just tried it... across the five main parties (in England), my "side with" results ranged from 51% to 70%, which I guess shows I am very much in the "centre ground", which is not unexpected.  It also reflects the fact that I really don't know how I am going to vote this time.

thomasw88

capo4th said:

Uh oh a forumite who thinks Diane Abbott has a brain

As opposed to a forumite who thinks that anything marginally left of Theresa Robot May is a commie..