That Manifesto is finally out

DarnWeight

I wouldn't class Diane Abbott as any better/worse than any number of the current government's cabinet ministers.  Take Boris Johnson, for instance.  This is a person who wrote a piece for a national newspaper describing Africans as "picaninnies" with "big watermelon smiles".

You don't even have to imagine that one, either.  He actually is our Foreign Secretary.

thomasw88

DarnWeight said:

I wouldn't class Diane Abbott as any better/worse than any number of the current government's cabinet ministers.  Take Boris Johnson, for instance.  This is a person who wrote a piece for a national newspaper describing Africans as "picaninnies" with "big watermelon smiles".

You don't even have to imagine that one, either.  He actually is our Foreign Secretary.

Ian duncan smith is possibly worse than Boris.

Mind you Jeremy Hunt - runs him close. 

fields5069

fields5069 said:

I like the idea of a National Education Service. I'm not sure my Spanish wife will be able to get her job back with the council after Brexit though. Doh. Good luck finding a British person with a good enough foreign language and a love of low wages. Even my daughter's Spanish teacher in school is pretty crap, and she's taught A-level FFS.

Bugger, NES is only for England.

Evilmags

Austrian economists predicted the last crash, and about 7 or the past 9. (See the book Time and Money by Garrison for proof).

Monetarists can certainly add up and do national accounts. Even most Keynsians can do that. 

Labour assumes that their is a mathematical relationship between tax rises amd income generated. Their is a vast body of proof that says otherwise. Arthur Laffer is but the tip of that ice berg. 

Fretwired

DarnWeight said:

I wouldn't class Diane Abbott as any better/worse than any number of the current government's cabinet ministers.  Take Boris Johnson, for instance.  This is a person who wrote a piece for a national newspaper describing Africans as "picaninnies" with "big watermelon smiles".

You don't even have to imagine that one, either.  He actually is our Foreign Secretary.

Boris sounds over qualified to me.

Abbott is an arse ....

She got booed at the police federation conference and then flounced off the stage, but went in the wrong direction and got lost.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/diane-abbott-heckled-police-officers-10435520

DarnWeight

Fretwired said:

DarnWeight said:

I wouldn't class Diane Abbott as any better/worse than any number of the current government's cabinet ministers.  Take Boris Johnson, for instance.  This is a person who wrote a piece for a national newspaper describing Africans as "picaninnies" with "big watermelon smiles".

You don't even have to imagine that one, either.  He actually is our Foreign Secretary.

Boris sounds over qualified to me.

Abbott is an arse ....

She got booed at the police federation conference and then flounced off the stage, but went in the wrong direction and got lost.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/diane-abbott-heckled-police-officers-10435520

I wouldn't bet against Amber Rudd getting similar treatment when she gives her speech to them this afternoon.  

FelineGuitars

We ought to have a nationalally owned GAS & ELECTRIC company (the equivalent of a EDF/Centrica) run to offer power to the elderly and low waged at the best possible price rather than all the power companies operating in UK colluding to fix prices so that their  UK customers have to pay can subsidise their customers in their "home markets" such as France or Germany.

ICBM

viz said:

Has anyone tried ISideWith? It said I side 92% with the party I intend to vote for, perhaps unsurprisingly. It's quite good. 

Also no great surprise for me…

76% Lib Dem
75% SNP
74% Labour
42% UKIP
39% Conservative

Which somewhat explains why I'm still having a bit of trouble deciding exactly which of the first three to vote for.

ICBM

Evilmags said:

Labour assumes that their is a mathematical relationship between tax rises amd income generated.

Actually they don't - they've explicitly said that they expect raising the tax rate to affect the collection rate. The question is whether they've allowed enough compensation… but I think that's a virtually impossible thing to accurately predict no matter who you are. They may not be exactly right, but they're not quite that stupid.

The Tories don't have a good record of calculating the amounts they can save by cutting services either, which is why they always overdo their tax cuts and end up finding there's a problem. This isn't even something that hasn't happened yet, it's the established pattern.

capo4th

***Breaking news. .........


Jeremy Corbyn and Dianne Abbott spotted on Hackney Marshes looking for money trees.


More to follow...............

Fretwired

ICBM said:

viz said:

Has anyone tried ISideWith? It said I side 92% with the party I intend to vote for, perhaps unsurprisingly. It's quite good. 

Also no great surprise for me…

76% Lib Dem
75% SNP
74% Labour
42% UKIP
39% Conservative

Which somewhat explains why I'm still having a bit of trouble deciding exactly which of the first three to vote for.

All fine until you work out that the Lib Dem leader is Tim Farron (God talks to me), I'm not in Scotland so I can't vote SNP, Labour is run by a dodgy old Marxist who lacks basic maths skills, thinks the British army are murders and the IRA are freedom fighters, UKIP are a bunch of Nazis, and May "strong and stable" who looks like she'll walk it due to the utter ineptitude of the opposition.

What a pathetic bunch ... I think I'll keep my vote to myself.

Fretwired

ICBM said:

Evilmags said:

Labour assumes that their is a mathematical relationship between tax rises amd income generated.

Actually they don't - they've explicitly said that they expect raising the tax rate to affect the collection rate. The question is whether they've allowed enough compensation… but I think that's a virtually impossible thing to accurately predict no matter who you are. They may not be exactly right, but they're not quite that stupid.

The Tories don't have a good record of calculating the amounts they can save by cutting services either, which is why they always overdo their tax cuts and end up finding there's a problem. This isn't even something that hasn't happened yet, it's the established pattern.

Labour is driven by ideology not advanced economics or basic maths. And they are that stupid .. they are dangerously fucking stupid ... luckily the electorate aren't stupid so Corbyn can spend his Sunday afternoon's shagging Abbott as neither of them will have much to do afterJune 8.

ICBM

Fretwired said:

All fine until you work out that the Lib Dem leader is Tim Farron (God talks to me), I'm not in Scotland so I can't vote SNP, Labour is run by a dodgy old Marxist who lacks basic maths skills, thinks the British army are murders and the IRA are freedom fighters, UKIP are a bunch of Nazis, and May "strong and stable" who looks like she'll walk it due to the utter ineptitude of the opposition. 

What a pathetic bunch ... I think I'll keep my vote to myself.

I know what you mean - I'm torn between not wanting to endorse Farron (same reason, and weak), not really wanting to endorse the SNP at Westminster (hypocritical and ineffective), and not thinking Corbyn is really up to the job of leader of anything.

I would be tempted to vote Green, but they're not putting up a candidate in my constituency.

So the choice is basically between voting for someone in the hope they won't win, and voting for someone in the expectation that they won't win. I *will* vote though.

LoFi

Fretwired said:

All fine until you work out that the Lib Dem leader is Tim Farron (God talks to me), I'm not in Scotland so I can't vote SNP, Labour is run by a dodgy old Marxist who lacks basic maths skills, thinks the British army are murders and the IRA are freedom fighters, UKIP are a bunch of Nazis, and May "strong and stable" who looks like she'll walk it due to the utter ineptitude of the opposition.

What a pathetic bunch ... I think I'll keep my vote to myself.

Yeah, this is the problem with these sites - there doesn't tend to be an option for "This particular policy is so ridiculous that I could never vote for this party". For example, I actually like quite a few of the Green party's policies, but they have other ones that are so batshit crazy that I would never vote for them.

ICBM

LoFi said:

Yeah, this is the problem with these sites - there doesn't tend to be an option for "This particular policy is so ridiculous that I could never vote for this party". For example, I actually like quite a few of the Green party's policies, but they have other ones that are so batshit crazy that I would never vote for them.

I'd actually be comfortable voting Green despite the batshit craziness, in the certain knowledge that at the very most they would end up as the very junior partners in a coalition either totally dominated by another party, or a multi-party one… hence having no chance whatever of actually implementing it.

Garthy

I wouldn't say the electorate aren't stupid enough to vote for Corbyn, Abbott and Macdonald, just reading this board tells you there is a sizeable proportion of spiteful thickos with a sense of entitlement and a chip on their shoulder that the world owes them for some imagined slight. A yougov poll asked a number of voters which party they alight with, and would they still raise taxes even if it reduces overall revenue. Only Labour supporters would raise taxes on moral not financial grounds. 

thomasw88

Garthy said:

I wouldn't say the electorate aren't stupid enough to vote for Corbyn, Abbott and Macdonald, just reading this board tells you there is a sizeable proportion of spiteful thickos with a sense of entitlement and a chip on their shoulder that the world owes them for some imagined slight. A yougov poll asked a number of voters which party they alight with, and would they still raise taxes even if it reduces overall revenue. Only Labour supporters would raise taxes on moral not financial grounds. 

WOW.. just wow.

fields5069

yougov lol, that famously independent organisation.

capo4th

Garthy said:

I wouldn't say the electorate aren't stupid enough to vote for Corbyn, Abbott and Macdonald, just reading this board tells you there is a sizeable proportion of spiteful thickos with a sense of entitlement and a chip on their shoulder that the world owes them for some imagined slight. A yougov poll asked a number of voters which party they alight with, and would they still raise taxes even if it reduces overall revenue. Only Labour supporters would raise taxes on moral not financial grounds. 

The crazy thing is so many people are believing the bullshit policies Jeremy Corbyn is spouting 8 out of 10 policies have not got a hope in hell of getting of the ground yet people hear shouts of free school meals free childcare tax the rich close the banks lets all have cheap water and electricity and dada dada dada Labour the money tree Party will get some votes ! 

Corbyn has a beetroot for a brain !

capo4th

The Labour Manifesto is a pipe dream