Tone in fingers, not in gear...

stickyfiddle

Next time someone tells you an expensive guitar is essential, show them this...

https://www.facebook.com/maxmantv.official/videos/987269244669152/

Sporky

Has anyone ever told anyone that?

siraxeman

Well that sounded nothing like a SRV playing a Strat w/TS into a cranked Fender amp to my cloth ears.

merlin

I have an egg slicer in my kitchen, I'm going to see.....

stimpsonslostson

I like this one- the tone isn't brilliant, but his talent IS. 

stickyfiddle

Sporky said:

Has anyone ever told anyone that?

Pish! You know what I mean :P

adamm82

Yeah but I am crap and my more expensive guitars make me sounder betterer.

AlexC

Of course 'tone' is in the playing. What folk are looking for with expensive gear is something that's reliable - you flick a switch and it works, stays in tune, makes it easier to sound exactly like someone else, etc. And some people get off on owning expensive gear - which keeps the market alive, I guess.

Wolfetone

That just sounded like a crap toy guitar played expertly......

impmann

Er... it’s hardly dripping with vintage tone. The guy is clearly a good player with a SOH, though..

dazzajl

The majority of people can hear playing, a small minority can hear guitar tone. 

WezV

dazzajl said:

The majority of people can hear playing, a small minority can hear guitar tone. 

That’s a bit ridiculous.  

Play the same track to people, recorded by the same guitarist with 2 different guitars.  Ask if they can a) hear a difference and b) have a preference.  The answer will be yes and yes.

then ask 2 guitarists to play the same track with the same guitar.  Ask the same questions.  You will get the same answers.


the music should always come first and doesn’t require specificly fancy gear, hopefully we all agree on that.  But let’s not ignore the influence instrument choice can have

ICBM

I've always said something like that - if tone is all in the fingers, give any great player of your choice a Strat and a JC-120 and see if they can make it sound like a PRS into a Dual Rectifier.

It *is* true that a great player will be able to sound very much like themselves with gear that you wouldn't usually expect them to use, but that's not quite the same thing.

dazzajl

WezV said:

dazzajl said:

The majority of people can hear playing, a small minority can hear guitar tone. 

That’s a bit ridiculous.  

Play the same track to people, recorded by the same guitarist with 2 different guitars.  Ask if they can a) hear a difference and b) have a preference.  The answer will be yes and yes.

............

We’re going to have to disagree here. I’m absolutely certain that the majority of folk wouldn’t be able to hear the difference if you swapped the make or model of a guitar on nearly any track. It’s just not what most people’s ears are trained to listen for. 

As players or collectors we tell ourselves there’s a need for single coils, buckers, some
P90s, or that a tele is significantly different to a strat but the truth is that your average gig goer or listener on the radio has no idea at all. 

Nor should they, because on the point of the music always being more important than fancy gear, I think you’re totally right. 

dindude

I think what we’ve learnt (or already know)is that a great guitarist can make anything sound musical, a crap player can make a great guitar sound, er, crap. There’s a thread live that demonstrates the opposite to this one rather well!

capo4th

Talented chap but his guitar sounded terrible like most cheap instruments. 

WezV

So you think people wouldn’t hear the difference in a side by side comparison?  I know they will hear a difference, and will have a preference.  

Whether it matters to them is a whole different point.  Whether it makes the performance better is another.

Go back to the original clip.  He sounds great on the most basic of guitars.  Do you think he has thrown his other guitars away?  Do you think it could be improved just by changing gear?  (My answers are no and yes)

merlin

I am in agreement that most people don't actually listen to "tone". Most people experience the energy, vibe, mood or whatever you want to call it. Hearing subtle differences is something we learn as we develop listening skills and become more discerning the more experienced we get. Remember that most audiences who attend pop/rock gigs or even buy the stuff to listen to on their portable devices or at home do not actually play themselves. Most people prefer a live show where the guitarist/saxophonist/singer (insert noun here) jumps around and puts on a good show. They will even excuse sloppy playing and "bad tone" if the party is rocking. 

We however give so much of a s**t about tone etc that it begins to hurt...

Barney

So will a bad player sound great through good gear...probably worse cos you be able to hear them better ..I think a good player through good gear works...through bad gear ..Yeah you can tell they can play but still the sound will be bad... off that makes sense

Sporky

Also there's the problem of using "tone" to refer to both the timbre and phrasing/vibrato and so on.

richardhomer

The guy in the video clearly has a great sense of timing - he produces a ‘musical’ performance with something which is little more than a toy - seems like a great player to me.

Would he sound ‘better’ with a more appropriate guitar? Yes - I’m sure he would - but that’s not really the point, is it?

I know certain players who sound great on any instrument they pick up - there’s something about their touch/dynamics/vibrato/phrasing, etc, which coaxes music from a ‘lesser’ guitar. Equally, I know someone with lots of very expensive guitars and amps who sounds dismal. Gear will never compensate for a lack of talent - but will allow a decent player to sound at their best.