Classifieds

BenSirAmos

Parker said:

BenSirAmos said:

As a community / forum, we might not want to comment on prices that are none of our business. But we surely we can combat misinformation if it is being used to justify an unrealistic price. 

I'm thinking of misinformation about when a guitar was built, claims that something is 'all original', etc. We need to be able to do that to maintain the reputation of the forum - but then it is only a small step to saying something is overpriced. I'd rather see factual and verifiable stuff expressed publicly rather than in PMs. 

Surely thats the job of a modmin? If there are questions of the authenticity, then this should be investigated by the forum moderators - not vigilantes!

I think that the definition of a community is that everything is not left to the authorities. 

TTony

Parker said:

BenSirAmos said:

As a community / forum, we might not want to comment on prices that are none of our business. But we surely we can combat misinformation if it is being used to justify an unrealistic price. 

I'm thinking of misinformation about when a guitar was built, claims that something is 'all original', etc. We need to be able to do that to maintain the reputation of the forum - but then it is only a small step to saying something is overpriced. I'd rather see factual and verifiable stuff expressed publicly rather than in PMs. 

Surely thats the job of a modmin? If there are questions of the authenticity, then this should be investigated by the forum moderators - not vigilantes!

That's actually a difficult one.

We (the modmin team) do not have the breadth and depth of knowledge that the wider forum community has.  Could one of us identify a fake LP from a couple of pics?  Unlikely, but half a dozen (or more) of you guys can.  A couple of you can even do it with your eyes closed.

If you see something that looks dodgy (as opposed to being over or underpriced) you should flag it (so that we modmins see it quickly and are aware that we might need to intervene), and PM the advertiser to explain that it's been flagged.  It might also help if you make some comment on the thread so that everyone else doesn't also flag it and PM the advertiser (who's getting a bit fed up of loads of PMs hitting his inbox).

The trick is making that post as diplomatic and objective as possible ... and coming up with a suitable form of words might be something else that you lot could help us with!

BenSirAmos said:

I think that the definition of a community is that everything is not left to the authorities. 

Absolutely this.  But when the vigilantes get involved - or even when someone makes a careless comment that gets taken the wrong way and then initiates a witchhunt or a major slanging match - it makes our life a lot more difficult.    

Jeztone

There has been misinformation on the MR forums. Someone was trying to sell an ex Dennis Stratton Fernades Strat with the claim he d used it in Iron Maiden. Which was weird as the licensed Floyd on the Fernandes dated it to 1986. I think Dennis Stratton left Maiden in what 82?

Parker

So does that not take us full circle if we're not handing it over to the mods to manage?

mellowsun

Much easier to spend £1500 in a shop - you can drop it on a 0% credit card and forget about it. Similarly when buying on ebay - plug a 0% card into your PayPal account and away you go. 

For private sales, you need the cash up front. So this limits the market, even for cheaper guitars - most people don't have even a few hundred knocking about, unless they sell something first.

Heartfeltdawn

The classifieds are lovely.

-People who advertise an item here and put it on EBay at the same selling price should be poked with sticks. 

-Those who dislike flipping: Once that transaction is complete and nobody's been ripped off and both seller and buyer are happy, then the new owner is free to do whatever they like with that item and it's nobody else's business. Drop it on Ebay for four times the price, smear it in Vaseline and slide it into their back passage, cover it in chocolate and jam it into Simon Rogan's mouth etc. 

-People complaining about overpricing: best earn a few more pennies, bub. Overpricing tends to be funny though. Watching someone desperately trying to flog, say, an older EHX pedal claiming it's priced to go when Ebay is at least 25% cheaper for the same pedal makes for glorious entertainment. 

I love the classifieds here. They tend to self-regulate themselves and there's a damn sight less dodgy deals going down compared to the old American Effects section of HCFX. 

GIJoe

mellowsun said:

Much easier to spend £1500 in a shop - you can drop it on a 0% credit card and forget about it. Similarly when buying on ebay - plug a 0% card into your PayPal account and away you go. 

For private sales, you need the cash up front. So this limits the market, even for cheaper guitars - most people don't have even a few hundred knocking about, unless they sell something first.

If you pay by PayPal for a private sale you can still use a credit card...

Drew_TNBD

Parker said:

BenSirAmos said:

As a community / forum, we might not want to comment on prices that are none of our business. But we surely we can combat misinformation if it is being used to justify an unrealistic price. 

I'm thinking of misinformation about when a guitar was built, claims that something is 'all original', etc. We need to be able to do that to maintain the reputation of the forum - but then it is only a small step to saying something is overpriced. I'd rather see factual and verifiable stuff expressed publicly rather than in PMs. 

Surely thats the job of a modmin? If there are questions of the authenticity, then this should be investigated by the forum moderators - not vigilantes!

But the mods aren't any particular kind of authority on the subject. It's not like the real world where you SHOULD let the police deal with crimes.

Heartfeltdawn

JohnPerry said:

+1 me too. I'm also not sure what possesses anyone to want to PM a seller telling them their prices are too high. Firstly, mind your own bloody business. Secondly...says who? No one has a monopoly on wisdom on this sort of thing. Someone helpfully PMd me back on MR about a rare amp I was selling, saying "you'll never get more than £400 for it". They apparently took great pleasure in it (and let's be honest, that's really why they do it). I put it on eBay and a fortnight later sold it to a rich amp collector based in Luxembourg for £1,200. The same bloke then bought my second example of the exact same amp for about £800 last autumn. This "price policing" has happened to me here too. Strikes me that the argument about saving naive forumites from themselves is as weak as they come.

I tend to get that more on Gumtree than forums. I tend to respond with something along the lines of "Thank you for your opinion. As you are confident enough to freely dispense your views to me without even a decent formal introduction, then I feel confident to return the compliment and so wish you a good day and please sod off'. 

ThePrettyDamned

Put the price you want one it, and let offers including part exchange types roll in. If not interested, say in the post the price is firm. Just because something is a bargain, it doesn't mean it'll sell - what if no one wants a purple sparkle darkness sig les paul? How about this one. I offered a mate 450 quid for his old epi korina Explorer. Why? It's exceptional. It's one of the best guitars I've played, in sound, feel and weight. I've played other explorers, epi, Gibson, other, and this one is better. He paid 200 quid for it. He didn't want to sell, and I know he wouldn't if I offered him a grand, and rightfully so - it really *is* that good. So maybe if a seller has a high asking price, it is just a really amazing guitar they don't want to let go of.

ThePrettyDamned

Bugger. I did put paragraphs in, I swear...

EdGrip

These are all good points, and so I formally recant my former statement with regard to the worth of things.

I still feel the pleasant PM is a valid thing where someone is forever bumping stuff which people are probably not buying because of the price. If people are not buying it because it's either a bit niche, or just a fundamentally expensive thing, that's a different ballgame again. 

Tex Mexico

You guys don't know how good you've got it.

I've joined a few of those "gear for sale/trade" groups on facebook. Half of the guys on there are trying to sell used gear for 95% of the new retail price (and if they've "upgraded" the pickups the sky's the limit, I've seen up to 150%), and the other half are looking for cheap gear. No, I mean like really cheap. No, I mean £20's a bit more than I wanted to spend on just one guitar...

I've never seen so many iterations in one place of the comment "If you think it's too expensive mate then don't buy it", as if that's the only ramification of allowing a hundred guys to clog up a group advertising their knackered crap for twice the going rate like the world's full of generous wealthy people willing to drive to the outer Hebrides to pick up a Chinese Squier with a bad headstock repair.

I've tried to sell a few bits on there and all I got was a hundred PMs from thirteen-year-olds telling me that if I'd wait four months they might be able to get their mums to buy it for them for their birthday, and can I send more photos?

Here and eBay are the only places I've ever done good business with people, and here's the only place where I wasn't left feeling like I'd been bent over and reamed with an apple corer.

Long live TFB.

juansolo

Parker said:

It seems to me that nothing much is selling at the moment unless it's an absolute bargain - admittedly not just on the FB. (I thought we were out of recession!!)

There also appears to be quite a lot of trolling creeping in to posts. And wonder if this is connected!? Quite a bit of bitching about pricing (...I thought the rule was that this was unacceptable?).

Despite my loathing for eBay and the 20% mark up I need to put on things just to cover their fees/paypal/etc, I have far more success on there than I've ever had selling things on here at less money. TFB is such a limited market, and if I can say this in the nicest way possible, seems to be populated by people who just want something for next to nothing ( AKA musicians generally ). It's why I rarely bother listing anything here these days.

Tex Mexico

I have just posted that Les Paul I#'m selling/trading on one of said Facebook groups.

Immediately received a PM from a guy who sends me a picture of two teles, he says he wants to trade the one on the right, which is a Mexican that's been "aged" and has US pickups. I ask him for the model and who's aged it and how much he'd add to the trade. He says he's got no idea what model it is, says it was aged by "the guy he bought it from at a guitar show" and ignores the question about how much cash he wants to put towards it. I tell him I'd at least need to know what the guitar is to consider a part-ex. His reply is that it's been so aged (a.k.a. 'ruined', I assume) he's got no way of telling. Still no answer on the cash. I actually suspect he was hoping for a straight swap.

I just don't understand it. What did he think would happen? More and more often I find myself talking to people who basically refuse to disclose any information about the goods they're offering me. Why don't people understand that I'm unlikely to buy something without at least the basic details - such as what it was before some random took his belt sander to it? Why can't people make that connection in their minds?

hubobulous

^^^^

Someone replying to an existing thread, who wants to offer a trade, should put just as much effort into pitching their goods as the person they have contacted. That's just common sense.

But you don't need common sense to purchase an internet connection, browser device and then sign up to websites.

More's the pity

Gagaryn

juansolo said:

Parker said:

It seems to me that nothing much is selling at the moment unless it's an absolute bargain - admittedly not just on the FB. (I thought we were out of recession!!)

There also appears to be quite a lot of trolling creeping in to posts. And wonder if this is connected!? Quite a bit of bitching about pricing (...I thought the rule was that this was unacceptable?).

Despite my loathing for eBay and the 20% mark up I need to put on things just to cover their fees/paypal/etc, I have far more success on there than I've ever had selling things on here at less money. TFB is such a limited market, and if I can say this in the nicest way possible, seems to be populated by people who just want something for next to nothing ( AKA musicians generally ). It's why I rarely bother listing anything here these days.

I agree with this. I've put up a few things here for sale at reasonable prices and had no biters. Then listed on eBay for 20% more (or even more) and sold within a couple of days. I'll continue to list stuff here though as I don't end up much better off and it's good to give folk the chance to buy something here without paying the eBay premium.

horse

I sold a guitar on here to somebody who I think only signed up to contact me about it. I guess he was googling for the guitar model and found my ad. I was a bit more cautious with him having no history, but he accepted taking the risk on PPG and didn't try to knock the price down. All went very smoothly.