Would you still buy a Gibson?

p90fool

My Strat was about £400 in 1977 and I wouldn't give you that for it now!

pintspiller

Try before you buy. Try as many as you can before you make the final decision

randella

p90fool said:

My Strat was about £400 in 1977 and I wouldn't give you that for it now!

Probably still worth more than my dinged-up fretless wonder, which is OK as long as you prefer a scale other than Am...

Ironically, given the thread, I’ve shifted to Gibsons these days. I even prefer the 24.75” scale - my 15-year-old self is disgusted, that much is sure. 

p90fool

randella said:

p90fool said:

My Strat was about £400 in 1977 and I wouldn't give you that for it now!

Probably still worth more than my dinged-up fretless wonder, which is OK as long as you prefer a scale other than Am...

Ironically, given the thread, I’ve shifted to Gibsons these days. I even prefer the 24.75” scale - my 15-year-old self is disgusted, that much is sure. 

Haha that's exactly me, vintage Fender man for 35 years then totally smitten by a goldtop. 

I'm happy though, I think single coils taught me to play in a way I would never have learned if I'd started with humbuckers. 

TTBZ

I remember when a Gibson LP Studio was about £600 maybe? Standards were about £1200 or so I think. It was when PRS SE were about £300 new, those have crept up to somewhat silly prices now as well. It seems like it’s only Fender and Squier that seem to have kept their prices relatively sane I think.

prowla

TTBZ said:

I remember when a Gibson LP Studio was about £600 maybe? Standards were about £1200 or so I think. It was when PRS SE were about £300 new, those have crept up to somewhat silly prices now as well. It seems like it’s only Fender and Squier that seem to have kept their prices relatively sane I think.

I have to say I saw an LP Studio at the Guitar Show today and thought "how much????".

thegummy

Strangefan said:

I wouldn't buy a new one... But then again I wouldn't buy any new guitar, 

I wish I could get in to the used guitar buying game, don't know how you guys manage it.

Any time I've tried I can never find the thing I want for sale in my area.

I imagine it's a lot more suited to people who are open to whatever comes up rather than looking for a specific model at a specific time.

lincolnblue

The main downside of buying used, in my opinion, is the fact that the choice is more limited. If you buy new you can go to a few guitar shops and try and lots to find the right one. Buying used does t really give you that...you take more if a risk

Kittyfrisk

randella said:

melod said:

I sort of disagree that guitar prices have gone that much up historically. I think people seem to reference the brief period where the dollar was very weak some years ago or the first eBay years that created all sorts of myths on bargain acquisitions. Yes, compared to 2010 it’s gone up.

Prior to that, a good guitar cost several salaries to acquire. The Les Paul my dad bought (not in the U.K.) cost 2-3 salaries that I would think would equate to 4-5k in today’s terms. 

Maybe some older people in the forum could confirm what it cost to buy a strat in the 90s or 80s... I doubt it was cheaper ... although some may say they were traumatised for not having experienced factory relicing and flamed maple as kids

Cheeky bugger
Absolutely   

My experience may possibly be a teeny bit different to a lot of folk here.
First guitar was an Eko 12 acoustic bought new (reduced) in about 1981, still have it.

Since then all my guitars & amps have been bought since 1998, & all second hand (even when as new).
However... I have a hard & fast personal rule, that means I never spend more than 'X' amount, which is bugger all all by today's standards, being in the mid hundreds.
I am not going to disclose the exact amount here, as if I ever want to sell anything I might attract the wrath of the 'bedroom flipper' accusers, when I've just been good at finding bargains (apologies to @HarrySeven where I'm really strictly an amateur & not worthy...) .

Despite my self imposed, never broken financial rules, I have managed to accumulate the following :-
(Most guitars are with original cases if they came with them).

Electric

Gibson 1979  "The Paul'  x2

Gibson  2005 SG Standard Heritage Cherry

 Gibson  2011 60's Studio Tribute Goldtop darkback (P-90's)

Schecter Classic C-1 (not reissue)

Schecter PT MM 

Ernie Ball OLP MM Doubleneck  6/12 

Ernie Ball OLP MM1F 

No name Tele (1 piece Mahogany body, Maple 70's bullet truss neck, Bare Knuckle Yardbird pups) Best guitar of them all!

Epiphone Explorer Korina reissue (EMG 81/85 active Humbuckers)

Epiphone Nighthawk Custom reissue

Epiphone Spotlight CMT

Tanglewood TW61 "Rick" 330 copy (real Rickenbacker Hi-Gain pups & Hardware)

"Rick" 360 Mapleglow handmade copy.

Godin LG (Seymour Duncan P-90's)

Godin Radiator
 Godin SDx24 (Seymour Duncan Pickups)

Godin SDx22 
 Hohner L59 (LP copy)

Hondo Revival ES335 x2

Hondo HL5FBB Fat Boy x2

Fret King DBC (LP Junior 'Tribute", single P-90)

Vintage Lemon Drop (early)
 Vintage V100 reissued
 Chibson Black Peter Frampton Custom style 3 humbucker = case

Maya 1970-80's Les Paul Custom copy 

Maya Strat copy Olympic White, looks like 68 strat, 3 way switch, A width neck.

Maya strat copy Natural. heavily adapted with multiple in-out phase switching mods.

Maya  60/70's cheap,Teisco like, one single coil pickup, plywood body. 

Maya 60/70's cheap, Tele style plywood/bamboo body neck. 

Japanese Strat, through neck, ebony/maple/Korina body, DiMarzio Super Distortion S/coils.

Dean Black Bolt ML (ceramic hi output humbuckers).

Squier Showmaster (with Wilkinson HB bridge).

Tokai Love Rock LP (Korean made)
 Tokai Love Rock 2 double cut (MIJ)
 Tokai Love Rock LS-85 (MIJ) special order, maple neck, Seymour Duncans.

Danelectro 56-U2 PRO - 2nd re-issue('Super Tele' + Fishman unsaddle Piezo)

Revelation RJT60-H ( coil tapped alnico V humbuckers & varitone switching).
 Squier Classic Vibe 2016, 60's 'Burgundy Mist' boxed/unplayed.

Acoustic

Maya J-45 (lovely MIJ Gibson copy, open book) 

El Maya 'Artist' F-344 MIJ Martin copy.

Vintage V300 MH 

Takamine EG330 SC 

EKO Ranger 12 string (original)

LAG Tramontane T200D12  12 string

Epiphone EJ-200 

Admira  "Avila" Spanish
 Admira  "Virtuoso" Spanish

Mandolin, handmade lovely inlaid far eastern F-Type

Ozark 6 string banjo 

Amps 

Laney TT20 1x12 combo (x 2)

Laney TT20 1x10 combo (custom cab.)

Laney TT20 head

Laney TT100 2x12 combo 
 Blackstar HT1R combo

Vox AC4TV 8" combo

Marshall DSL 401 combo
  Marshall AS50R combo

Pedals
Best not go there... lots.

So, do I believe that guitars were better value/more affordable between 1998 & now?
I say yes but your opinion /mileage may vary.

melod

randella said:

melod said:

I sort of disagree that guitar prices have gone that much up historically. I think people seem to reference the brief period where the dollar was very weak some years ago or the first eBay years that created all sorts of myths on bargain acquisitions. Yes, compared to 2010 it’s gone up.

Prior to that, a good guitar cost several salaries to acquire. The Les Paul my dad bought (not in the U.K.) cost 2-3 salaries that I would think would equate to 4-5k in today’s terms. 

Maybe some older people in the forum could confirm what it cost to buy a strat in the 90s or 80s... I doubt it was cheaper ... although some may say they were traumatised for not having experienced factory relicing and flamed maple as kids

Cheeky bugger

Inflation-adjusted (BoE website), the last Strat I bought - for £600 in 1996 - would cost £1,134 today. It’s a USA Standard limited edition, tweaked by the custom shop with Texas Specials and a few cosmetic niceties. 

A quick squint at Anderton’s and the nearest I can find is an FSR American Professional limited edition up at £1,399.  Quibbling over a few quid really. It’s also probably a better guitar, much as I love my own. 

Also the frets on mine are knackered beyond hope, but I can’t blame that on the weak pound

I never took any interest in Gibsons back then, so I really have no idea what - say - a 335 cost at the same time. I’ll admit that I was startled to see them edging close to £3k now, but maybe they always were that dear.

Anyone with insight, I’d be interested. 

Don’t worry I am also getting older

Another thing to point out that not that long ago (cough) an American standard strat or Les Paul was THE model to buy ... now a professional strat , for example, is under the ultra which is under the custom shop which is under the master built ....

Whistler

I have had two Gibsons, a 2007 Les Paul which was nowhere nearly a nicely finished as my Ibanez or Burny guitars. In 2011 I bought a Gibson ES-339 and that shouldn't have even left the factory it was so badly made. Both have now been sold.

On that basis I would have answered the OP by saying, "No way," but I really believe the Gibson's CEO is good news for Gibson and he is turning round staff morale and quality issues as well as the more front page news about which models Gibson will make. I would not want to put someone off buying a new one but I would caution anyone to be carfeul buying a secondhand Gibson from Mr. Juszkiewicz's later years as CEO and owner.

Neil

If it was what I wanted of course I'd buy a new Gibson. 

Greatape

ICBM said:

TTBZ said:

Maybe but only a 2nd hand one. Not as much to do with the poor image they’ve created for the company, but more to do with how bloody expensive they are now.

I was talking about this to a friend recently. It's not that long ago when £2K was considered a *lot* of money for an electric guitar. You could buy any top-quality, professional-big-gig guitar for £2K, and any more than that seemed to be for collectors and the vintage market only.

Now £5K is the new £2K. Even £7K doesn't seem to be that unusual.

For a solidbody electric guitar?! You can buy a *brand new car* for less than £7K, just.

Yep. In last year's Guitar magazine 'gear of the year' feature, a £1999 Eastman won in the 'mid-range guitar' section. Like you, I wonder when £2k became 'average.'

Guitars have more or less doubled in price in the last 10-12 years. Unfortunately, wages have not kept pace. All of which taken together has thoroughly rogered any future NGD's six ways to Sunday.

Greatape

randella said:

melod said:

I sort of disagree that guitar prices have gone that much up historically. I think people seem to reference the brief period where the dollar was very weak some years ago or the first eBay years that created all sorts of myths on bargain acquisitions. Yes, compared to 2010 it’s gone up.

Prior to that, a good guitar cost several salaries to acquire. The Les Paul my dad bought (not in the U.K.) cost 2-3 salaries that I would think would equate to 4-5k in today’s terms. 

Maybe some older people in the forum could confirm what it cost to buy a strat in the 90s or 80s... I doubt it was cheaper ... although some may say they were traumatised for not having experienced factory relicing and flamed maple as kids

Cheeky bugger

Inflation-adjusted (BoE website), the last Strat I bought - for £600 in 1996 - would cost £1,134 today. It’s a USA Standard limited edition, tweaked by the custom shop with Texas Specials and a few cosmetic niceties. 

A quick squint at Anderton’s and the nearest I can find is an FSR American Professional limited edition up at £1,399.  Quibbling over a few quid really. It’s also probably a better guitar, much as I love my own. 

Also the frets on mine are knackered beyond hope, but I can’t blame that on the weak pound

I never took any interest in Gibsons back then, so I really have no idea what - say - a 335 cost at the same time. I’ll admit that I was startled to see them edging close to £3k now, but maybe they always were that dear.

Anyone with insight, I’d be interested. 

Well, pulling randomly from the tower of guitar magazines, a 2005 Guitar Magazine ad shows American Series strats from £599 to £699, and American Deluxes at £899. 

SteveRobinson

Feb '77 Issue of IM&RW "Price Scanner":

Stratocaster with trem £300.70. A Jazzmaster was £348.75 and a Telecaster £240.25.

A Les Paul Deluxe gold top was £448.89

melod

SteveRobinson said:

Feb '77 Issue of IM&RW "Price Scanner":

Stratocaster with trem £300.70. A Jazzmaster was £348.75 and a Telecaster £240.25.

A Les Paul Deluxe gold top was £448.89

So 300£ in 1977 are about 1800 today and 448 is 2800 today ... 

ICBM

melod said:

So 300£ in 1977 are about 1800 today and 448 is 2800 today ... 

... which makes the standard range Gibsons and Fenders look reasonably priced, but the Custom Shop look very expensive, given that the manufacturing processes in the 1970s were closer to what is now CS than standard.

melod

ICBM said:

melod said:

So 300£ in 1977 are about 1800 today and 448 is 2800 today ... 

... which makes the standard range Gibsons and Fenders look reasonably priced, but the Custom Shop look very expensive, given that the manufacturing processes in the 1970s were closer to what is now CS than standard.

That would definitely deter me from choosing custom shop guitars

ICBM

melod said:

That would definitely deter me from choosing custom shop guitars

The problem in the 1970s, especially at Gibson, wasn't the quality - it was decisions that were taken by the company to cheapen production, and in some cases fashion... heavy guitars were perceived as desirable, for example. The actual *quality* of construction and finishing on the classic models was actually very good, at least as good as the current CS. The real problems were things like the SGs with the controls mounted from the front, and some of the bolt-on-neck models, which were awful design decisions intended to reduce costs.

Fender did certainly have an issue with poor parts fit - especially neck joints - but again that was a deliberate decision to speed up production by removing the possibility of a high-tolerance neck and a low-tolerance neck pocket not fitting together... the parts themselves were actually well-made - just not to the classic shapes. The thick finishes were actually meant as an improvement because they protected the instrument better. And the gaps in a 70s Fender neck joint are nothing compared to some of the ones that are hidden inside modern Gibsons!

randella

Thanks @SteveRobinson - that’s interesting. It would seem that prices are roughly in line then, apart from 2005 when we all need to go back in our time machines and buy guitars from @Greatape ’s catalogue . Did the dollar tank that year?

High-end stuff has got dear, CS Fenders and R8s and the like. The good thing is that more affordable gear is better than ever, so my Ibanez Artist doesn’t disgrace itself next to a gen 335. I’m not saying it *is* a 335, just that it’s a great guitar in its own right.

Thing is, though, if I won the lottery I’d want (apart from anything else) Gibsons. A nice ES175, a decent LP standard, a Hummingbird. Probably an Explorer just to play the intro from Master of Puppets whilst posing in front of the mirror. 

Yeah the CEO’s a bit... wayward, he’ll get replaced soon enough when they realise bad PR is affecting their bottom line.  The instruments are iconic though, and wanting a bit of that history strapped on your shoulder is at least part of the reason we’re in to this hobby.

This cease and desist culture isn’t exactly exclusive to Gibson either - I’m not saying I like the way they throw their weight around, I most certainly don’t. But - Fender aren’t exactly squeaky-clean, I’m pretty sure they sent the big guns out from Fullerton for both Charvel and Schecter back in the day.