Fender custom shop rumour—is this true?

StuartMac290

Both Chris Kroenlein at K-Line and Bill Asher spend ages matching necks to bodies, and pickups to finished guitars.

Alex2678

Bork said:

This is because the resonant frequency of the instrument overlapped with the harmonic content of the note you played.   All materials have a frequency at which they vibrate.  It's why some opera singers can smash wine glasses by yelling in a controlled way...or sometimes, not even opera singers, just loud shriekers.   The trick with building any musical instrument is to raise the resonance peak beyond (either above or below) the point where we are likely to notice it.  Neck stiffness is one way to sort it out and a change in mass (anyone remember Fatheads?) is another.   Even a tweak on the truss rod can sometimes help with moving deadspots around the neck a bit.   

 Pickups have a resonancy peak as well BTW.   The art of building a good guitar is knowing how to exploit this resonancy characteristic in ALL the materials to get a pleasing outcome.   Generally the builder who develops their product with a limited range of materials over a long period is more likely to know how to get a particular timbre.  Paul Reed Smith is a classic case and probably Ken Smith as well.  They've based the core tone of their instruments in the characteristics of certain materials and can vary the others a little for aesthetic impact.  But they don't screw around with the key essentials any more than a chef would screw around with the key essentials for their signature dish.

Yeah I was looking at those fat finger things as a possible solution but figured for a new guitar I didn’t want to be immediately problem chasing so took it back

Seziertisch

This is why partscasters tend to be a bit hit and miss. For all their cosmetic beauty and carefully selected hardware and electronics they can be a bit blah - not bad, even quite good, but just lacking in wow factor.

Putting a randomly selected neck and body together, even if of good provenance, does not guarantee a great guitar.

ThePrettyDamned

ICBM said:

Gassage said:

Necks make the MOST difference- simple physics

FTFY.

The body definitely does make a difference too, although smaller - testing has been done on that and produced clear results. Hopefully I can say that without opening up that particular can of worms again...

Totally. I pretty much think the neck rules mostly, the recent concrete guitar build indicates a strat will still sound broadly stratty no matter the material of the body. 

The question is whether these slight differences are actually important. They're not, to me, and I have an astonishingly resonant strat. 

Fez

In my day job we call this a rap test but it is done with transducers placed on the item under test hooked up to a computer the part is struck with a hammer a the vibrations recorded. This is used when you can't get the piece on a proper vibration table. 

thegummy

Fez said:

In my day job we call this a rap test but it is done with transducers placed on the item under test hooked up to a computer the part is struck with a hammer a the vibrations recorded. This is used when you can't get the piece on a proper vibration table. 

Do you tap out the beat with the hammer then spit some bars over that?

wesker123

Colour is most important. Billy Corgan said so, so it must be true.

stratology

guitars4you said:

WezV said:

approach one - build things heavy like an 80's yamaha SG1000.    the solidness means you get a pure string sustaining for longer.   also a faster attack up front and a gradual decay with little colouration

I've owned a 78 SG for 42 years now - I've tried every PAF pick-up under the sun to try and get it warmer, more lush and less of that initial 'harsh' attack - With no joy - Obviously it is part of the guitars make up - You can see why some 'punk' based guys liked them at the time - But I want it to be more Kossoff - Yet I'll never sell it, for various reasons - I don't gig now, but in the day, if I did 3 x 40/60 min slots then the SG never came out for the final slot - Just to to heavy 

Have you tried lower value pots? Like 300k if the guitar currently has 500k?

carlos

wesker123 said:

Colour is most important. Billy Corgan said so, so it must be true.

About as valid as anything else in these 3 pages.

skunkwerx

thegummy said:

Fez said:

In my day job we call this a rap test but it is done with transducers placed on the item under test hooked up to a computer the part is struck with a hammer a the vibrations recorded. This is used when you can't get the piece on a proper vibration table. 

Do you tap out the beat with the hammer then spit some bars over that?

Genuine lol right there! 

tone1

I remember seeing a video where Paul Reed Smith talks about the neck and body ringing the same note when you tap on wood before they are joined together. He then proceeded to do this on the video and they both sounded totally out of sync. Bad example but he agreed with the science.

JayGee

wesker123 said:

Colour is most important. Billy Corgan said so, so it must be true.

And he may very well be right...

Over the years and having owned far more guitars than I could possibly justify) I’ve increasingly come to believe that the most important characteristic of an instrument is the subjective/emotional response it generates in the player. If it feels right and puts you in the right frame of mind you’ll play better, you’ll sound better and (in my case at least) you’ll play more, learn more, learn more, and develop more leading to sounding better whatever you happen to pick up.

If what sparks your creativity and gets you in the groove is the colour then fine. 

If it’s knowing that somebody has put love and painstaking care into selecting particular pieces of wood and putting them together in a particular way then also fine (plus you have the general satisfaction of owning a beautiful and unique item, which may also go towards getting you “in the zone”).

If it’s vintage pieces with rich backstory then, again, fine.

Doesn’t matter what doctrine (or combination of doctrines) you subscribe to - if it works for you then it’s valid, and the fact that something else works for another player doesn’t invalidate either.

Hattigol

There's a risk you can overcomplicate the whole thing. I'm sure I remember an interview with Gary Moore where he said he always tests a guitar the same way - pick the thing up, strum a loud open E chord and see how it resonates. 

I still don't think there is a better way of assessing a guitar personally.

JayGee

Hattigol said:

There's a risk you can overcomplicate the whole thing. I'm sure I remember an interview with Gary Moore where he said he always tests a guitar the same way - pick the thing up, strum a loud open E chord and see how it resonates. 

I still don't think there is a better way of assessing a guitar personally.

For me it would be the E7#9 “Hendrix Chord” - if you think about it that actually covers quite a lot of ground in one hit (or strum) because it covers balance between open and fretted notes, how the guitar intonates (and how the action feels) as you start to move up the neck a little way, and also sounds way cooler in the shop... :-)

guitars4you

Hattigol said:

There's a risk you can overcomplicate the whole thing. I'm sure I remember an interview with Gary Moore where he said he always tests a guitar the same way - pick the thing up, strum a loud open E chord and see how it resonates. 

I still don't think there is a better way of assessing a guitar personally.

somehow, that is always my first test 

johnhe

First of all, my opinion is that it is very difficult, or impossible, to guarantee what a certain neck will sound like in any certain body. The world of guitars is a world of beautiful, unintended accidents (imo).

But for me, I've been totally convinced that the biggest influence on the tone is the neck. I have 3 strats. Over the years I’ve bought and sold more strats than some shops! But when I was still in “search” mode, I decided to swap the necks to try to get what I wanted. One strat was very bright, and one was kind of warm and middly sounding. The 3rd strat was darker sounding.

The revelation for me was after I had swapped the necks. The warm strat with the neck from the bright strat become the brightest sounding. The bright sounding strat with the warm/middly neck became the warmest sounding of the 3. To cut a long story short, in every case, the primarily, noticeable tonal characteristics followed the neck.

After that neck-swapping, I then mixed the pickup sets to compliment the base, inherent nature of the tone from the neck/body. Hey presto, I ended up with the 2-3 strats which ended my search. I’ve not been tempted by a strat in the 6 years since then. And it’s hard to emphasise what a change that is.

Here they are:

https://imgur.com/gallery/rby0i6l

guitars4you

johnhe said:

First of all, my opinion is that it is very difficult, or impossible, to guarantee what a certain neck will sound like in any certain body. The world of guitars is a world of beautiful, unintended accidents (imo).

But for me, I've been totally convinced that the biggest influence on the tone is the neck. I have 3 strats. Over the years I’ve bought and sold more strats than some shops! But when I was still in “search” mode, I decided to swap the necks to try to get what I wanted. One strat was very bright, and one was kind of warm and middly sounding. The 3rd strat was darker sounding.

The revelation for me was after I had swapped the necks. The warm strat with the neck from the bright strat become the brightest sounding. The bright sounding strat with the warm/middly neck became the warmest sounding of the 3. To cut a long story short, in every case, the primarily, noticeable tonal characteristics followed the neck.

After that neck-swapping, I then mixed the pickup sets to compliment the base, inherent nature of the tone from the neck/body. Hey presto, I ended up with the 2-3 strats which ended my search. I’ve not been tempted by a strat in the 6 years since then. And it’s hard to emphasise what a change that is.

Here they are:

https://imgur.com/gallery/rby0i6l

I've heard stories of Master Builders doing likewise to 'pair' a neck to a  body for a 'better outcome'  - It is not as though the neck was duff - Just doesn't achieve the desired results with body A - So try it with B or C for best results - Have heard others doing what you mention above with Squiers, MIM, MEX, or USA, both new and older models 

TTBZ

In my small sample of my 2 guitars, I have one which is really bright and resonant unplugged, and one that's dull and totally uninspiring to play unplugged. But through an amp the dead one has lots more sustain and is much easier/more enjoyable to play, even with the same pickups. I also find myself preferring the tone most of the time. I had a similar thing with an old Gibson LP Deluxe I played recently. A bit dead and dull sounding unplugged but great through the amp.

So I don't necessarily buy into lively resonant guitars translating into a good plugged in tone and sustain. I do wonder if it's more down to body thickness or weight though. The poor tone/sustain guitar of mine is a very light SG and the other is a relatively heavy strat copy. And the others are LPs which are obviously chunky and heavy.

CarbonCopy

TINMAN82

JayGee said:

wesker123 said:

Colour is most important. Billy Corgan said so, so it must be true.

And he may very well be right...

Over the years and having owned far more guitars than I could possibly justify) I’ve increasingly come to believe that the most important characteristic of an instrument is the subjective/emotional response it generates in the player. If it feels right and puts you in the right frame of mind you’ll play better, you’ll sound better and (in my case at least) you’ll play more, learn more, learn more, and develop more leading to sounding better whatever you happen to pick up.

If what sparks your creativity and gets you in the groove is the colour then fine. 

If it’s knowing that somebody has put love and painstaking care into selecting particular pieces of wood and putting them together in a particular way then also fine (plus you have the general satisfaction of owning a beautiful and unique item, which may also go towards getting you “in the zone”).

If it’s vintage pieces with rich backstory then, again, fine.

Doesn’t matter what doctrine (or combination of doctrines) you subscribe to - if it works for you then it’s valid, and the fact that something else works for another player doesn’t invalidate either.

Very well put and so true.

In line with the “painstaking care” point, I think that goes somewhat towards offsetting what some would describe as “more money than sense”. You can’t play every example of a particular model before purchasing (most of us are limited to a couple at most in the local shop). So there’s something reassuring about a higher ticket guitar with the implication that more of the ground work is done for you. Like Stella Artois....