Gibson R9 2016 historic or not.

guitars4you

tomajoha said:

guitars4you said:

digitalkettle said:

musicalstash said:

I am going to view one this weekend but it's alot of money and don't want to be stuck with one of the undesirable years ( 2012?) and wasn't sure if this was one of them. 

I got ‘stuck with’ a 2012 R9...only, that was back in 2012 when there was no stigma

What was the stigma? Partly the two-piece rosewood boards (never confirmed mine...which looks great by the way) and partly the subsequent accuracy shenanigans?

I love it and it’s probably been my most gigged guitar in all that time! Could be a proper bargain if you found one now.

I recently had a 2012 R9 in the shop - Only way to confirm the 2pc fingerboard is to remove the nut - Do we all need/want to do that - Not all 2012 are 2pc fingerboards - But you have to accept it might be

But now play it - I was conscious of all the negatives such a guitar was going to receive - And I suppose what 'negatives' the 2pc fingerboard would impart on the tonal character/sustain - It certainly won't have any impact on the feel/playability - Bottom line is I played every note expecting to find some nasty dead spots - Not unusual to find a dead spot on any R9, of any age, any era - Could not find one 

Granted a 2pc fingerboard is not historically correct - But I have some news for all 59 LP fans - Gibson have not made an accurate 59 LP since 1959 

Exactly, the woods are wrong, the lacquers wrong etc etc. On raw materials alone they will never be what they were.

I personally don’t mind what spec it is along as it plays well.

and that is what it is all about - Could not agree more

Alex2678

I wouldn’t be interested in the makeup of the plastics or the really technical invisible stuff as long as it played well. At least the custom shop gets the big stuff right - couldn’t go back to my USA standard after I’d played an r8, the neck angle and feel just seemed wrong 

musicalstash

Not super "flamey"but a bit more than the photos show. 

https://ibb.co/tBKNf2N

https://ibb.co/Dp9Fy1w

Thanks for all the help and advice 

Sassafras

If you like it, buy it.
If you don't like it, don't buy it.

YourArsenal87

musicalstash said:

Not super "flamey"but a bit more than the photos show. 

https://ibb.co/tBKNf2N

https://ibb.co/Dp9Fy1w

Thanks for all the help and advice 

It's certainly got a nice looking top. 

tomajoha

Agreed nice top

HandwrittenHero

RandallFlagg said:

In 2016 the Gibson Custom Shop offered Historic Reissues and the True Historic Reissues.

From memory the Historic R9s would retail for around £4K-£4,500 and the True Historics for around £6,000-£6,500.

I can't recall all the different “upgrades” for the True Historics but they used what Gibson claimed were more accurate plastics, more accurate pickup covers with more a more historically accurate  corner radius, hand sanded tops with more accurate carve, better figured and sometimes lighter woods. 

I think there were a few improvements to the 2014 onwards Historic reissues over the previous years using improved dyes, hide glue, and the improved Custombucker pickups in place of the Burstbuckers. 2014-2016 guitars were considered good quality years and the 2014 upgrades were well received. The R8s had some nice slightly flamey tops around this time as well.

Andertons did a comparison video at the time between the Historic and True Historic and Lee couldn't really find much real world difference for the player, they pretty much felt and sounded the same.

I had a 2016 Historic R8 and it was a fine guitar.

When the True Historic line was dropped I think the new plastics and pickup covers carried over to become standard on what they now just call “reissues” from the Custom Shop. The pickups fitted from 2018 onwards are the “unpotted” Custombuckers with Alnico III magnets.

2019 for unpotted pickups, otherwise rest of that looks about as I understand it. Off top of my head I'm not sure when they moved to a3 custombuckers initially, but know my 2018 R9 has potted a3 custombuckers and it was the anniversary models for the year after where they made a big fuss of going unpotted.

At end of day though, specs give you a bit of a guide if you already know a little bit what you've liked before, but you can surprise yourself too. Hands, ears and eyes will tell you best about a guitar though.

jmf1928

tomajoha said:

As @RandallFlagg said. 

2016’s are generally v good. 2015 is seen as an avoid year due to a move to short tenons but this was corrected in 2016.

There were changes made to the tenon? Isn’t that sacrilege?

musicalstash

jmf1928 said:

tomajoha said:

As @RandallFlagg said. 

2016’s are generally v good. 2015 is seen as an avoid year due to a move to short tenons but this was corrected in 2016.

There were changes made to the tenon? Isn’t that sacrilege?

I think the 2015 models had the CS9 serial numbers. 

tomajoha

jmf1928 said:

tomajoha said:

As @RandallFlagg said. 

2016’s are generally v good. 2015 is seen as an avoid year due to a move to short tenons but this was corrected in 2016.

There were changes made to the tenon? Isn’t that sacrilege?

It was the year Gibson that decided they needed to stop smoking the crackpipe at design meetings 

Fifty9

jmf1928 said:

tomajoha said:

As @RandallFlagg said. 

2016’s are generally v good. 2015 is seen as an avoid year due to a move to short tenons but this was corrected in 2016.

There were changes made to the tenon? Isn’t that sacrilege?

They were trying to create a market for the true historics by ‘downgrading’ the normal/false historics with shit like short tenon. Ie trying to charge 3k for an inch of wood.

YourArsenal87

Fifty9 said:

jmf1928 said:

tomajoha said:

As @RandallFlagg said. 

2016’s are generally v good. 2015 is seen as an avoid year due to a move to short tenons but this was corrected in 2016.

There were changes made to the tenon? Isn’t that sacrilege?

They were trying to create a market for the true historics by ‘downgrading’ the normal/false historics with shit like short tenon. Ie trying to charge 3k for an inch of wood.

The True Historic shenanigans was such an awful, corporate greed move. 

artiebear

YourArsenal87 said:

Fifty9 said:

jmf1928 said:

tomajoha said:

As @RandallFlagg said. 

2016’s are generally v good. 2015 is seen as an avoid year due to a move to short tenons but this was corrected in 2016.

There were changes made to the tenon? Isn’t that sacrilege?

They were trying to create a market for the true historics by ‘downgrading’ the normal/false historics with shit like short tenon. Ie trying to charge 3k for an inch of wood.

The True Historic shenanigans was such an awful, corporate greed move. 

It's a problem of making massive statements about either finally making a reissue of an iconic guitar, or making the ultimate distillation of the perfect guitar ( insert your own brand here ), then realising that once those with the cash to splash have done so, as a brand you have backed yourselves into a corner, unless you can come up with the "new and improved version". As far as the True Historic guitars are concerned, it would be unfair to comment as I am not able to confirm that the new plastic parts sound better 

RandallFlagg

Can you nuggets stop quoting my post, you're filling up my inbox.

MattNovak

RandallFlagg said:

Can you nuggets stop quoting my post, you're filling up my inbox.

Yeah, come on guys - not cool. 

rossi

Not another Harley Benton thread ....

RandallFlagg

HandwrittenHero said:

RandallFlagg said:

In 2016 the Gibson Custom Shop offered Historic Reissues and the True Historic Reissues.

From memory the Historic R9s would retail for around £4K-£4,500 and the True Historics for around £6,000-£6,500.

I can't recall all the different “upgrades” for the True Historics but they used what Gibson claimed were more accurate plastics, more accurate pickup covers with more a more historically accurate  corner radius, hand sanded tops with more accurate carve, better figured and sometimes lighter woods. 

I think there were a few improvements to the 2014 onwards Historic reissues over the previous years using improved dyes, hide glue, and the improved Custombucker pickups in place of the Burstbuckers. 2014-2016 guitars were considered good quality years and the 2014 upgrades were well received. The R8s had some nice slightly flamey tops around this time as well.

Andertons did a comparison video at the time between the Historic and True Historic and Lee couldn't really find much real world difference for the player, they pretty much felt and sounded the same.

I had a 2016 Historic R8 and it was a fine guitar.

When the True Historic line was dropped I think the new plastics and pickup covers carried over to become standard on what they now just call “reissues” from the Custom Shop. The pickups fitted from 2018 onwards are the “unpotted” Custombuckers with Alnico III magnets.

2019 for unpotted pickups, otherwise rest of that looks about as I understand it. Off top of my head I'm not sure when they moved to a3 custombuckers initially, but know my 2018 R9 has potted a3 custombuckers and it was the anniversary models for the year after where they made a big fuss of going unpotted.

At end of day though, specs give you a bit of a guide if you already know a little bit what you've liked before, but you can surprise yourself too. Hands, ears and eyes will tell you best about a guitar though.

The new unpotted alnico III pickups were being fitted in 2018, I have a 61 Custom Shop SG from 2018 with them. It may have been 2019 before they arrived at the dealers but the COA on mine states 2018.

wesker123

The last Doug and Pat show on YouTube said none of reissues are right because they don't have the "dish" right 

Vintage

Carved and dish aren't right.
But this is a part of Gibson marketing: if Gibson made the perfect reissue, who buy the next model? Probably in 2050 Gibson made the right, in every details, les paul. 

musicalstash

Deal done.  Thanks again for all the help.