Pickup Upgrade Overadvised?

Philly_Q

Bennyboy-UK said:

Funnily enough, once upon a time I had a strat with Ceramic bar magnet single coils - it was actually sounded completely fine and I felt no urge to replace them for any reason. I didn't feel I was missing anything that the guitar would suddenly sound better for changing out the pickups.

I remember reading an interview with a blues guitarist - I think it was Duke Robillard, but possibly someone else - who said he preferred the cheapo ceramic-bar single-coils in a budget Strat.  It's whatever works for you really.

In the days when I was obsessed with changing pickups I made some terrible choices - like putting a DiMarzio Tone Zone in a Gordon-Smith GS2.  Quite often when I sold a guitar and put the original pickups back, I'd find it sounded better...  I do remember the stock pickups in Fender American Standards sounding pretty ropey, though - it wasn't difficult to improve on them.

I don't change pickups nowadays.  I hardly ever plug a guitar in.

chrisj1602

I have really like some stock pickups, my old MIM Classic 60s Tele springs to mind, it sounded great.

My wife has unbranded Strat copy she used at school for lessons, no idea what it is but it sounds like a Strat, and sounds pretty good too. I even used it for recording something when I wanted a Strat sound at a time that I didn’t have one.

That said, I have upgraded pickups too, I’ve bought Bare Knuckle, Oil City and The Creamery stuff.

monoamine

What makes more difference - the notes you play or how they sound? Upgrade your playing Vs your equipment in that order.

thegummy

monoamine said:

What makes more difference - the notes you play or how they sound? Upgrade your playing Vs your equipment in that order.

I can't really think of a scenario where you'd have to choose between the two?

Cirrus

monoamine said:

What makes more difference - the notes you play or how they sound? Upgrade your playing Vs your equipment in that order.

Notes are sound. Your question doesn't make sense!

horse

thegummy said:

. But 2 of the BKP ones were bought by my Mrs as a present because I was talking about them a lot and it was even before I bought the guitar to put them in so I was always going to replace them. With my Strat the stock pickups broke so I went for Bare Knuckle and Oil City but it's not like I tried out cheaper ones first and felt the need to go for higher ones, I just went for the good name ones to save having to care about whether they were good enough.

 You were talking to your wife a lot about pickups?? And then she bought them for you?

Might give it a try but not confident I'm going to get the same outcome

thegummy

horse said:

thegummy said:

. But 2 of the BKP ones were bought by my Mrs as a present because I was talking about them a lot and it was even before I bought the guitar to put them in so I was always going to replace them. With my Strat the stock pickups broke so I went for Bare Knuckle and Oil City but it's not like I tried out cheaper ones first and felt the need to go for higher ones, I just went for the good name ones to save having to care about whether they were good enough.

 You were talking to your wife a lot about pickups?? And then she bought them for you?

Might give it a try but not confident I'm going to get the same outcome

lol it was when we first got together so were very much at the stage of showing interest in each other's interests if you know what I mean.

Having said that I think I might be getting Jazz bass pickups for xmas so maybe you should give it a try!

DeeTee

To answer the question, yes, pickup swaps are over advised. They are a good option if you like how a guitar plays, but not how it sounds.

I was guilty of the same - bought an Indonesian Squier Tele to do up. Electronics we're busted. Intended to take the pickups straight out, when they actually have pretty decent stock ones. Someone on here advised me to actually give them a try before swapping.

Strangefan

Yeah I'm sorry to say I find a lot of it bullshit, mainly because I made my own pickups for years, this alone saw through the bullshit, all you need is quality materials and a good hand and you can make puckups as good as any.
I had a "josefina pick up custom shop strat, I made my own and honestly in the same guitar their was no better pickup, they sounded just as good, it was at this point I stopped buying pickups and just made my ow to my own spec, it's copper coiled arounf a magnet not magic like the manufacturers claim........... The new fishmen pickups however...... Now they are special 

Lonewolff

You've obviously never heard a single cut Harley Benton with upgraded pickups. They would wipe the floor with any Les Paul on this planet.

thegummy

Strangefan said:

Yeah I'm sorry to say I find a lot of it bullshit, mainly because I made my own pickups for years, this alone saw through the bullshit, all you need is quality materials and a good hand and you can make puckups as good as any.
I had a "josefina pick up custom shop strat, I made my own and honestly in the same guitar their was no better pickup, they sounded just as good, it was at this point I stopped buying pickups and just made my ow to my own spec, it's copper coiled arounf a magnet not magic like the manufacturers claim........... The new fishmen pickups however...... Now they are special 

The "Josefina" thing is so laughable, that's tiers above boutique pickups in its absurdity.

I imagine their target market are the same who spend on those vintage Gibson capacitors.

WiresDreamDisasters

thegummy said:

"this cheap guitar with a pickup upgrade is as good as an expensive guitar"

It's basically true. Look at how many PRS owners don't and can't write music, and look at how many killer bands started off on Squiers.

Dentists and lawyers are shit at music. Fact.

digitalscream

For what it's worth...I know that I tend to prefer either a Seymour Duncan set (Custom Custom and '59) just because they balance well, or Lace Sensors. Pretty much everything else sounds/feels "meh" when I play it.

With that said, I've just bought a set of Lace Alumitones for my main guitar. I have absolutely no idea what they're going to sound like, but I love the idea of pickups which are of a fundamentally different design to everything else on the market without going down the active route.

Will they make me sound totally different to everybody else? Nah, my playing will still sound exactly like me. I'll know something's different, though, and that's sometimes enough.

ICBM

Cirrus said:

Pickups can make a massive difference, but it's so context dependent.

But knowing how I play and what I'm looking for, I could make a meaningful choice to switch from one to the other;


A2 Pro: Soft and spongey when you dig in hard, nice cleans.

59s: Much stiffer attack and more bass than the above, I found them hard work


In conclusion... it's not about how much pickups cost. It's about whether they make the guitar as a music making tool easier or harder for you personally to get where you need to go.

I’ve selectively quoted you simply to make it clearer - that basically sums it up for me. I kept those two examples because they’re exactly why I far prefer ‘59s to A2s - I love the punchy attack and bigger bass, and dislike the softness of the A2s which I find thin-sounding.

Whether a listener would hear much difference, I don’t know - or care. It’s all about the feel and feedback I get from the guitar when I’m playing it. It’s not price-dependent, there are some cheap pickups which sound fantastic and some expensive ones which sound bland.

Lestratcaster

I've changed all the stock pickups out from all but one of my guitars, I have played them stock for a good few years before deciding I want something better/different. Most are Bareknuckle or Oil City pickups, with the exception of one Seymour Duncan JB in a Strat.

Amp and hands play a key factor to how they sound in any guitar as well as the woods, electronics etc. I also have upgraded all the pots too and it does allow the pickups to shine to their full potential, e.g with a CTS 550k pot in my Les Pauls the humbucker really sounds clear and that top end is sweet.

I've got a couple of guitars where its had 2-3 pickup swaps because its just not giving me the sounds I want, and I'm a fussy git. As a tutor when comparing the same guitar to the student I do notice major differences in the stock and the ones I use.

Funkfingers

Pickups do not exist in a vacuum. The host instrument can - and, often, does - make a difference. Thus, the same pickup can sound wonderful in one guitar and utterly pants in the next. 

Some combinations of pickups and guitar can sound terrible but still yield interesting results. 

This week, I have been mostly testing an Eastwood Airline VVSC pair in an Airline Twin Tone guitar. Objectively, both elements are cheap, nasty, over-priced rubbish. Together, through gnarly distortion, they make a delightfully nasty rhythm guitar racket. (Think: Jack White meets early John McGeoch with a side order of Joy Division.)

thegummy

Lestratcaster said:

I've changed all the stock pickups out from all but one of my guitars, I have played them stock for a good few years before deciding I want something better/different. Most are Bareknuckle or Oil City pickups, with the exception of one Seymour Duncan JB in a Strat.

Amp and hands play a key factor to how they sound in any guitar as well as the woods, electronics etc. I also have upgraded all the pots too and it does allow the pickups to shine to their full potential, e.g with a CTS 550k pot in my Les Pauls the humbucker really sounds clear and that top end is sweet.

I've got a couple of guitars where its had 2-3 pickup swaps because its just not giving me the sounds I want, and I'm a fussy git. As a tutor when comparing the same guitar to the student I do notice major differences in the stock and the ones I use.

To me, any perceived difference from different pots of the same value has to be placebo, it doesn't make sense from the way they work that it could affect the sound.

If I'm wrong I'd hope someone who knows about electronics can explain what I'm missing.

Lestratcaster

thegummy said:

Lestratcaster said:

I've changed all the stock pickups out from all but one of my guitars, I have played them stock for a good few years before deciding I want something better/different. Most are Bareknuckle or Oil City pickups, with the exception of one Seymour Duncan JB in a Strat.

Amp and hands play a key factor to how they sound in any guitar as well as the woods, electronics etc. I also have upgraded all the pots too and it does allow the pickups to shine to their full potential, e.g with a CTS 550k pot in my Les Pauls the humbucker really sounds clear and that top end is sweet.

I've got a couple of guitars where its had 2-3 pickup swaps because its just not giving me the sounds I want, and I'm a fussy git. As a tutor when comparing the same guitar to the student I do notice major differences in the stock and the ones I use.

To me, any perceived difference from different pots of the same value has to be placebo, it doesn't make sense from the way they work that it could affect the sound.

If I'm wrong I'd hope someone who knows about electronics can explain what I'm missing.

It's not a blatant noticeable difference, one of the guitars that had pots switched out was a cheapie LTD with crappy cheap pots.

monoamine

My point was that a great player will sound good on a crap guitar straight out the factory. We have money and like nice things so I have no issue with people upgrading their pickups, but the difference it actually makes to how we sound to others is minimal.

Someone once told Chet Atkins, "Man, that guitar sure sounds good!"
Chet set the guitar down on a chair and asked him, "Ok, how does it sound now?"

soma1975

Then presumably the 1st guy punched Chet Atkins for being a smartarse and not accepting the compliment.