Montys "ageing wax" snake oil? or good ?

GoldenEraGuitars

ElectricXII said:

GoldenEraGuitars said:

I would avoid linseed oil and boiled linseed oil 

I’m curious. I’ve used boiled linseed oil to condition rosewood fingerboards for years with no obvious adverse effects. 

It’s a finishing product, as @OilCityPickups has already said.. not a conditioner. If you allow any to dry on your frets you’ll notice it dries with a thin amber film/layer left behind. 

elstoof

It wouldn’t be my choice, definitely not regularly as it will build on itself, but Taylor use BLO in the factory on all fretboards. Their advice is to use their conditioning oil for regular maintenance, I’d assume it’s petrol based but I can’t see what good it’ll do to bit of wood sealed with BLO beyond cleaning the surface

BillDL

The secret with any conditioning oil is not to flood the fretboard with it.  Use it sparingly and to wipe off any excess a short time after application.  Even very dry wood will only be able to absorb a small amount of oil, or should I say that the oil will only be able to penetrate to a certain depth before going no further and just pooling on the surface.  Leaving it wet with excess oil overnight or blasting it with a warm hairdryer won't force the wood to "drink" any more of the oil than it can.  All that happens is that the excess oil (depending on type) will stay wet and get all over everything, or go slightly more gloopy and still get all over everything, or (in the case of boiled linseed oil) it will start to get gummy and then go a bit harder and crystalline, and at that stage you will not be able to rub it off.  Think of how hard it is to wash the accumulation of gummy residue that forms on the mesh basket in a deep far fryer and the rim of hardening gum that develops in the container.  That gum is caused by the oil being repeatedly heated.

The idea of using a "finishing oil" like boiled linseed oil (traditionally used on willow cricket bats) is that it dries much faster than the oil in its raw state which would take forever and a day to dry.  As well as boiling it may also have additional drying agents added.  On a fretboard like rosewood there are little grain pits all over it.  Boiled linseed oil will sink into those pits and will remain there and dry hard after the residue has been wiped off the wood's surface, and will build up in those pits after repeat applications.  You shouldn't use it too often though.  Usually once a year would be fine, but at the very most maybe once every 7 or 8 months.

With your prepared mineral oils like Dunlop lemon oil, etc (no lemons are involved other than a lemon scent), you do not have to be particularly careful about how much you slap on or how often - within reason - because is stays very runny, the excess won't start to harden and would still be as easy to wipe off even after a couple of days, and it doesn't have the strange smell of linseed oil (that I actually like).  Additionally it is easier to wash off your hands and you don't have to worry about leaving oily rags lying around.  In rare situations where the air is very dry and warm, a scrunched up rag or piece of kitchen roll that is saturated with linseed oil can start smouldering as the oil oxidises and creates heat, and can cause a fire.

I've used boiled linseed oil on rosewood (and similar) fretboards for 43 years and have never experienced any problems.  The guitars I have had in my possession have fretboards that have naturally darkened and are nice and smooth with a natural satin feel.  No stickiness or putrefaction.  On some that had particularly dry fretboards when bought I have used runny wax compounds like leather/shoe cream (Loake brand made by Saphir - as mentioned by @elstoof), silicone-free firniture polish containing beeswax, and even lip salve in combination with other oils.  A hard wax buffing polish will also sink into the pits on a wider-grained dark hardwood like rosewood and gradually harden and build up, while leaving a smooth sheen on the surface.

Anybody that has spent any amount of time with a new pair of parade boots, a spoon and a candle to heat it, and some hard wax polish, will appreciate how you can get the polish to soak into the leather to disguise the grain, then build up the polish to a hard shiny finish.  In some ways waxing a fretboard is similar in that it will gradually fill in the grain with repeated use, but obviously you aren't going for a build up of layers.  You do the Karate Kid routine of "wax on, wax off" on a guitar.

Just my opinions and experience.  Others' opinions may vary, and that's fine.

WezV

GoldenEraGuitars said:

ElectricXII said:

GoldenEraGuitars said:

I would avoid linseed oil and boiled linseed oil 

I’m curious. I’ve used boiled linseed oil to condition rosewood fingerboards for years with no obvious adverse effects. 

It’s a finishing product, as @OilCityPickups has already said.. not a conditioner. If you allow any to dry on your frets you’ll notice it dries with a thin amber film/layer left behind. 

I'm fine with it as long as you don't use it like a finish that builds.   A finishing oil will give good protection on rosewood when rubbed in, and thoroughly buffed off with a clean cloth straight away.  There shouldn't be any left on the frets if done this way, but it does nicely protect the wood and still give a natural feel

longshins

If you are slathering on oils n’ that are you risking frets lifting up if they aren’t seated or glued in very well?

WezV

longshins said:

If you are slathering on oils n’ that are you risking frets lifting up if they aren’t seated or glued in very well?

Most of the oils discussed here won't swell wood or affect most glues, but you shouldn't be slathering anything on.  Frankly, if the frets are not seated well the product used to treat the fretboard is a bit of a moot point - you have bigger issues to solve

I would recommend dabbing a cloth on the end of the bottle and rubbing in, not throwing the oil around like its a bottle of Moet on a winners podium.

Ddigger

elstoof said:

I picked some up a while ago out of curiosity, tried it on my daughter’s Squier laurel board and it worked a treat, noticeable darker from 1 application.

My son has a Squier Mustang.  The board was dry and the colour patchy.  During his guitar grades, he struggled with string bending on his guitar and managed better on mine.  Seemed like an expensive product, but a trawl around the internet came up with enough positive experiences to give it ago.

I used the Montypresso product.

It did darken the fretboard and even out the colour. I'd say it darkened the fretboard slightly more than Timhulio's photographs.  I left it on overnight.

 More importantly, it gave the fretboard a more finished feel and made string bending and general playability easier.

I'll use it again on his guitar and also a couple of mine.

elstoof

I probably won’t use my tin again and there’s plenty left so let me know if anyone wants to give it a try

nero1701

elstoof said:

I probably won’t use my tin again and there’s plenty left so let me know if anyone wants to give it a try

Oh, me please

BigPaulie

nero1701 said:

elstoof said:

I probably won’t use my tin again and there’s plenty left so let me know if anyone wants to give it a try

Oh, me please

This tin should go on tour so we can see how many Fretboarders' guitars it can treat.

nero1701

BigPaulie said:

nero1701 said:

elstoof said:

I probably won’t use my tin again and there’s plenty left so let me know if anyone wants to give it a try

Oh, me please

This tin should go on tour so we can see how many Fretboarders' guitars it can treat.

Funny that @BigPaulie ;

This is exactly what I'd said when I pm'd @elstoof ;

elstoof

It’s already done 3 fretboards, reckon there’s 20 odd at least

nero1701

We should all do before and after shots

BigPaulie

nero1701 said:

BigPaulie said:

nero1701 said:

elstoof said:

I probably won’t use my tin again and there’s plenty left so let me know if anyone wants to give it a try

Oh, me please

This tin should go on tour so we can see how many Fretboarders' guitars it can treat.

Funny that @BigPaulie ;

This is exactly what I'd said when I pm'd @elstoof ;

Great minds... 

drippycat

ElectricXII said:

GoldenEraGuitars said:

I would avoid linseed oil and boiled linseed oil 

I’m curious. I’ve used boiled linseed oil to condition rosewood fingerboards for years with no obvious adverse effects. 

I'm curious too. I started using linseed oil after (I think it was) Dan Erlewine suggested it. I figured as the author of 2 books about guitar maintenance that I know of, who am I to say different?

BigPaulie

drippycat said:

ElectricXII said:

GoldenEraGuitars said:

I would avoid linseed oil and boiled linseed oil 

I’m curious. I’ve used boiled linseed oil to condition rosewood fingerboards for years with no obvious adverse effects. 

I'm curious too. I started using linseed oil after (I think it was) Dan Erlewine suggested it. I figured as the author of 2 books about guitar maintenance that I know of, who am I to say different?

I've used, and still use, BLO for years and years and years on dozens of guitars.

I have no ill effects to report.

If you leave it on the frets it does form a film. A film which is immediately removed from the fret crown as soon as you fret a note.

nero1701

So heres the deal.. 

I'll donate £1 to charity for every person that gets the use of this tin.

Names on the list to see order of use.

1. Nero1701
2.

BillDL

Looking at the consistency of the Monty's wax in the tin brings back old memories of childhood where we had to rub dubbin into our leather rugby boots to waterproof and soften them.  As kids we had a leather panelled football with a red rubber bladder inside that my Father made for us.  That was also dutifully dubbin'd, which made it heavy as hell.  Modern footballers and rugby players don't know how lucky they are with their modern boots and balls    Later on as a late teenager we used it for heavy leather hillwalking boots while on residential "outward bound" courses.  While wondering whether dubbin was just paraffin wax and beeswax or something like that, I got the surprise of my life to realise it is still made and used.  The dubbin from my childhood was darker and far less neutral in colour to modern dubbin, or perhaps it had just aged in the tin over the years.  I would love to know what goes into the magical Monty's wax.

BillDL

With Winter just around the corner, I wonder if there would be enough in one tin for BoJo to use as lip salve?

digitalkettle

BillDL said:

Looking at the consistency of the Monty's wax in the tin brings back old memories of childhood where we had to rub dubbin into our leather rugby boots to waterproof and soften them.  As kids we had a leather panelled football with a red rubber bladder inside that my Father made for us.  That was also dutifully dubbin'd, which made it heavy as hell.  Modern footballers and rugby players don't know how lucky they are with their modern boots and balls    Later on as a late teenager we used it for heavy leather hillwalking boots while on residential "outward bound" courses.  While wondering whether dubbin was just paraffin wax and beeswax or something like that, I got the surprise of my life to realise it is still made and used.  The dubbin from my childhood was darker and far less neutral in colour to modern dubbin, or perhaps it had just aged in the tin over the years.  I would love to know what goes into the magical Monty's wax.

It got rebranded and probably nicer smelling:
https://www.drmartens.com/uk/en_gb/wonder-balsam-shoe-protector-85ml/p/AC787000