Potential break away European super football league

Rocker

I don't quite understand the hysteria surrounding the proposed Super League.  It is not as if a team like Liverpool FC actually belong to or are part of Liverpool city.  They were at one time part of Liverpool life but that has long since ended.  The same applies to any of the other teams who seemingly intend to break away from the domestic football structure to join the Super League.  The TV money will follow the Super League thus giving a dose of reality to the domestic football leagues.  

As I see it, football should reflect the level of the game in the area.  This has long ceased to be the case as players are brought in from every part of the globe.  I can't see the problem if, for example, the teams in League 1 and 2 were played by semi pro or amateur players.  Football would truly come home if the local team actually is made up of some local players.

There is nothing to be gained by barring Super League players from playing international football.  The nation needs it's best players playing for the National team.

If the owners of the breakaway teams want to make more money than they do at present, what right have we to try to stop them?

Longtallronnie

One English club considering withdrawing from ESL apparently. 

https://apple.news/Ahlvwhsy1QXi6SE_FeqxlSg

Also seen that Jordan Henderson has called an emergency meeting amongst PL captains. 

RaymondLin

Rocker said:

I don't quite understand the hysteria surrounding the proposed Super League.  It is not as if a team like Liverpool FC actually belong to or are part of Liverpool city.  They were at one time part of Liverpool life but that has long since ended.  The same applies to any of the other teams who seemingly intend to break away from the domestic football structure to join the Super League.  The TV money will follow the Super League thus giving a dose of reality to the domestic football leagues.  

As I see it, football should reflect the level of the game in the area.  This has long ceased to be the case as players are brought in from every part of the globe.  I can't see the problem if, for example, the teams in League 1 and 2 were played by semi pro or amateur players.  Football would truly come home if the local team actually is made up of some local players.

There is nothing to be gained by barring Super League players from playing international football.  The nation needs it's best players playing for the National team.

If the owners of the breakaway teams want to make more money than they do at present, what right have we to try to stop them?

The principle of sport.

You win, you get promoted, you lose, you get relegated.

That’s the model of our game, you are free not to participate but we are free not picking your players not participating in it.

crunchman

Rocker said:

I don't quite understand the hysteria surrounding the proposed Super League.  It is not as if a team like Liverpool FC actually belong to or are part of Liverpool city.  They were at one time part of Liverpool life but that has long since ended.  The same applies to any of the other teams who seemingly intend to break away from the domestic football structure to join the Super League.  The TV money will follow the Super League thus giving a dose of reality to the domestic football leagues.  

As I see it, football should reflect the level of the game in the area.  This has long ceased to be the case as players are brought in from every part of the globe.  I can't see the problem if, for example, the teams in League 1 and 2 were played by semi pro or amateur players.  Football would truly come home if the local team actually is made up of some local players.

There is nothing to be gained by barring Super League players from playing international football.  The nation needs it's best players playing for the National team.

If the owners of the breakaway teams want to make more money than they do at present, what right have we to try to stop them?

No right, but the Premier League and Football League clubs have the right to stop them from wrecking their chances.

If they stay in the Premier League and field B teams because they don't need to worry about finishing in the top 4, they devalue it, and the TV money for the next deal will be considerably lower.  That's stitching up the remaining clubs.

It is also removing the chance for the other clubs in the league to do well and get into that club.  25 years ago, Man City were a joke.  They were bought by some rich foreigners who invested a lot of money and are now top of the league and in the Champions League.  There are supporters of a large number of clubs who can dream of a rich foreigner coming in and doing what Man City have done.  If these teams pull up the drawbridge after them that dream is removed.

Football has always been about merit. No matter how big you are, you have to perform on the pitch.  This is removing that.

If these clubs want to go ahead, then fine, but they should be booted out of the Premier League.  They are actively hurting, and being anti-competitive (which is illegal) against all the other 86 clubs in the Premier League and Football League.  If I work for a company, and set up a competitor that will reduce it's revenues, I will rightly get sacked.  Those clubs have every right to boot them out.  The loss of revenue from being booted out of the Premier League would be massive, and make it counter-productive for them to go ahead.

I hope the government changes the law to something like the German one, that gives the fans control.

guitars4you

Longtallronnie said:

One English club considering withdrawing from ESL apparently. 

https://apple.news/Ahlvwhsy1QXi6SE_FeqxlSg

Also seen that Jordan Henderson has called an emergency meeting amongst PL captains. 

A journalist this morning on R5 commented, from inside info, that of the 12 clubs, 6 were driving it, 3 un-sure and 3 that thought they should go along with it - He added that MUFC and LFC were driving it from the UK end via American owners

Gary Neville last night suggested that he could not see why MCFC would go along with it - They did not need the funding and passed positive comments about the structure they had invested in within the Manchester area and it did not appear to fit in with a super league format 

So fingers crossed - My guess is that it will be MCFC, or  indeed Arsenal as they don't want to finish last in the new super league for the next 20 years 

RaymondLin

Exactly, in any job, if you take a 2nd job that is if a competitor of your current employer you will get sacked.  Or better still, you will have clause in your contract forbidding you to do so, some for a number of years after you left.

The PL and UEFA is the employer, if you don’t want to be employed by them, fine, but you can’t have it both ways. 

No player is irreplaceable, even clubs are replaceable.  Who remembers Newcastle being in the Champion’s league? Who remembers Forrest winning 2 European Cups? Who remember Preston NE being the biggest team in England?

The magic if the PL is the competitive nature of it, if these clubs don’t want to be a part of that and want to see how to survive or thrive outside it, they are free to find out.  Just stay out of it completely and don’t moan about it, you dig your own grave so lay in it.

prowla

So long as it hasn’t got fake crowd noise, I’m all for it!

dano

Something I don't understand is why people think the 'big six' are leaving the PL  and it will be bad for football. 

My understanding is they plan to remain in the PL and play the new ESL mid week, possibly instead of CL and Europ. 

FA cup would still remain ?

Rocker

You guys have missed my point.  If the six pull out of the PL and choose to play in the ESL, they forfeit any PL status.  That is only right.  They, the six, have the right to do just that.  But if they do, the TV money is most likely to follow them thus leaving the PL and the other leagues dependent on other revenue sources.  In effect more or less as it was before the Sky money blew the PL out of all proportion.  This change could be seen as evolution of football in practice.  Most people do not want change but if there is no change then the game might die.  For a lot of clubs it is effectively dead already.  What chance has Sunderland of ever getting to play European football?  Or Scunthorpe United? Or ??????????????????

Whatever emerges from this earthquake, I hope that common sense prevails and that international players are selected on merit and not limited to the approved leagues that the players play in.  National teams need the best players representing their countries irrespective of where they play their football.

Philly_Q

dano said:

Something I don't understand is why people think the 'big six' are leaving the PL  and it will be bad for football. 

My understanding is they plan to remain in the PL and play the new ESL mid week, possibly instead of CL and Europ. 

FA cup would still remain ?

Doesn't that just sum up their arrogance and sense of entitlement?

They secretly plan to set up a European Super League whilst just assuming they can carry on in the Premier League and continue to reap those benefits, in addition to the new ones.  They get to pick and choose which competitions they play in, and everyone else can just work round them.

How would the Premier League table have any meaning if four of the top teams (and two mid-table no-hopers) have a guaranteed ESL place regardless of where they finish?  How do the other fourteen teams know what position they're aiming for if they have Champions League or Europa League ambitions?

guitars4you

dano said:

Something I don't understand is why people think the 'big six' are leaving the PL  and it will be bad for football. 

My understanding is they plan to remain in the PL and play the new ESL mid week, possibly instead of CL and Europ. 

FA cup would still remain ?

The want to remain in it, but it is not there tournament - They want part of one function, run by a 3rd party, but 100% control of their own ESL - Have their cake and eat it 

Let's assume for now they are still in the PL and run their own midweek league that offers them 'additional funding' - Do you think they will put out a strong side for a Sat PL match, knowing they have a ESL mid week - Furthermore remember that it doesn't matter if they finish in the top 4 or not to earn a CL place, as they can finish 10th (like Arsenal are heading this year) and still be GAURANTEED 100% a SPECIAL PLACE IN THE ESL - They will treat the PL like they currently treat the FA Cup 

Plus why would the PL want to give them X amount for finishing top of the PL, in order for them to use it to fund their ESL ambition 

Add to that, the big 6 could finish 1-6 in the PL - Play in their own ESL - That will mean 7-10 places would qualify for the CL which is equally crazy

Philly_Q

guitars4you said:

Add to that, the big 6 could finish 1-6 in the PL - Play in their own ESL - That will mean 7-10 places would qualify for the CL which is equally crazy

It would also be unfair on teams in most other European countries who would still have to finish at the top of their national leagues to qualify for the Champions League - why should English teams who finish (a possibly distant) 7th or 8th get CL places? 

guitars4you

Rocker said:

You guys have missed my point.  If the six pull out of the PL and choose to play in the ESL, they forfeit any PL status.  That is only right.  They, the six, have the right to do just that.  But if they do, the TV money is most likely to follow them thus leaving the PL and the other leagues dependent on other revenue sources.  In effect more or less as it was before the Sky money blew the PL out of all proportion.  This change could be seen as evolution of football in practice.  Most people do not want change but if there is no change then the game might die.  For a lot of clubs it is effectively dead already.  What chance has Sunderland of ever getting to play European football?  Or Scunthorpe United? Or ??????????????????

Whatever emerges from this earthquake, I hope that common sense prevails and that international players are selected on merit and not limited to the approved leagues that the players play in.  National teams need the best players representing their countries irrespective of where they play their football.

Sky would still cover and fund PL - There would be an adjustment - Agree that the big 6 would be missed, but the spirit of football and competition still goes on 

Even if Sky, or BT follow the ESL, other companies would still want to cover a form of the PL - the 2nd tier (EFL Championship) is the most competitive 2nd tier in Europe - It is stronger than most other 1st tier European leagues ( I'll have to look but somehow recall that the EFL's crown and/or viewing figures were higher than the French top flight league and only the German, Spanish and Italian top flight leagues beat it ) - So a 'weakened' PL would survive

There can be a re-set - Even the idea of bringing Celtic + Rangers into a new reset PL - Nothing is not possible - Might be even better for the game, to see Blackburn come back to the top spot and/or another Leicester 'surprise' - The 1st Top 6 of the PL included QPR, Norwich and Villa - So form on the pitch is not permanent, yet the big 6 still want the top pay packet and accept that a poor league placement (potentially 10th this year for Arsenal) still gets you an elite spot  

guitars4you

Just picked up an interesting stat - Man U, Man City, Arsenal + Spurs combined have won the CL less times than 'little' Ajax - And you need to add those 4 clubs + Chelsea to equal the record amount of wins of Ajax, so what is elite about that 

RaymondLin

Nottingham Forrest has won the European Cup cup more times than City, Spurs, Arsenal and Chelsea combined.

earwighoney

guitars4you said:

Just picked up an interesting stat - Man U, Man City, Arsenal + Spurs combined have won the CL less times than 'little' Ajax - And you need to add those 4 clubs + Chelsea to equal the record amount of wins of Ajax, so what is elite about that 

The influx of oligarchs buying clubs and hoarding players has effectively concentrated the possibility of only a few teams being able to win the CL.

Ajax are a historic name in the game but there's no way the Dutch league could ever compete, even if Ajax had a huge investor FFP would make things tricky.

The only stages of the CL or Europa I'd watch are the ones when you get to see teams which aren't shown much. The lure of seeing Barce/Real play against PSG/Chelsea happens so often it's become dull and predictable, in the CL anyway. The Europa is a bit more open, but it's been devalued by 4 teams going to the CL, which IMO is one of the things which has lessened the joy of mid week European football and domestic cups too for the teams at the top anyway.

thecolourbox

RaymondLin said:

Nottingham Forrest has won the European Cup cup more times than City, Spurs, Arsenal and Chelsea combined.

Most teams in the football League have won the European Cup as a many times as City, Spurs & Arsenal combined 

guitars4you

Philly_Q said:

guitars4you said:

Add to that, the big 6 could finish 1-6 in the PL - Play in their own ESL - That will mean 7-10 places would qualify for the CL which is equally crazy

It would also be unfair on teams in most other European countries who would still have to finish at the top of their national leagues to qualify for the Champions League - why should English teams who finish (a possibly distant) 7th or 8th get CL places? 

Agree + To be honest I've always thought it unfair that the 4/5 big European leagues can have 2-4 CL slots, yet the likes of Sweden, Belgium, Scotland, Croatia have to qualify and possibly have no slots and hence only join the UEFA competition that year

Yet under the old CL and Fairs Cup days and only the league winners entered the CL - Then it is possible to have a stronger Fairs Cup competition as all the 2nd/3rd/4th place league clubs from England, Germany, Italy + Spain + then add strong 2nd placed clubs from other countries and it would be a stiffer title to win - Hence not the flag ship product - Didn't the year Man U beat Bayern Munich at the thriller at the Nou Camp, with those 2 late goals, didn't both teams come 2nd in their own leagues the year before ? - As such under the old days that CL final would have been the EUFA/Fairs Cup Final - So can understand the UEFA model, but equally it has created its own elitism, but it is still an open competition

guitars4you

RaymondLin said:

Nottingham Forrest has won the European Cup cup more times than City, Spurs, Arsenal and Chelsea combined.

and Villa can match City, Spurs, Arsenal + Chelsea combined - Celtic can also match that stat

Heartfeltdawn

Rocker said:

I don't quite understand the hysteria surrounding the proposed Super League.  It is not as if a team like Liverpool FC actually belong to or are part of Liverpool city.  They were at one time part of Liverpool life but that has long since ended. 

Claptrap.

Rocker said:

As I see it, football should reflect the level of the game in the area.  This has long ceased to be the case as players are brought in from every part of the globe.  I can't see the problem if, for example, the teams in League 1 and 2 were played by semi pro or amateur players.  Football would truly come home if the local team actually is made up of some local players.

I want a local game for local people, there's nothing for you here!