I Never Realised Just How Much Difference Truss Rod Adjustment Can Make

Fishboy7

I've always done my truss rod and bridge adjustment by feel, and a bit if trial and error.

 I'm always wondering though if a pro setup would make any noticeable difference. 

Kasalic

guitars4you said:

But yes the relief will make a monster difference to the overall playability - But it is just part of the overall adjustment/check that is required to get the correct set-up/balance to the whole guitar 

I find this is the thing I used to miss, now I have a set order of sorting things out I can get a much better playing guitar, although I am sure it could be a lot better if done by a pro.

Nerine

Bit of a noob question, but anyway...

do all truss rods tighten and loosen in the same direction? 

Tighten is to add relief isn’t it? I’ve always thought of it as you tighten the rod to bow the neck more. 

Are we talking quarter of a turn at a time with this stuff? Or can you be a bit more heavy handed with it? 

To be fair, I’ve very rarely futzed with any of mine. Although I do find that a new guitar, after having acclimatised to my house/it’s new environment for a few weeks seems like it needs a tweak as buzzing starts to occur. 

MrTee

Tightening the rod straightens the neck as it works to counteract the string tension, so reduces relief.

To add relief, you loosen the rod so string tension is pulling the neck in an upward bow, creating more relief.

Or so I understand it...

Neill

Fishboy7 said:

I've always done my truss rod and bridge adjustment by feel, and a bit if trial and error.

 I'm always wondering though if a pro setup would make any noticeable difference. 

I think most guitarists are capable of setting the string height at the bridge, and the neck relief, themselves.  I doubt you would see any difference from a pro doing it.  But a pro set up will for example get the height at the 1st fret exactly right, and level/polish the frets which could make a big difference.  I reckon levelling the frets is the most difficult job for an amateur to do, and also the most likely issue with most new guitars, especially at the cheaper end.  

Chuffola

Righty tighty, lefty loosey. Looking down the neck from the headstock

I've tweaked truss rods regularly for decades - nothing to be scared of as long as you don't force anything and take a note of how many quarter turns you've made so you can get it back if needed. A quick tweak can make such a difference. 

Agree that levelling frets is above most of our pay grades - and probably the biggest thing to improve playability. 

andy_k

I know it is frowned upon, but I tend to have my nut slightly higher than a tech would set it, checked by being able to actually hear a note played above a fretted note around 12th fret.
I also prefer maybe slightly more relief than normal, which helps to make notes ring with absolutely no buzz, action is still fairly reasonable at around 2-3mm.
I gave up trying to get low action years ago, could not stand the buzzing that occurred, one of those things like trying to get intonation perfect, pretty much impossible.
The closer you get to perfect, the more the tiniest things stand out.
I like to have some things set up on the low side, just to give my hands a break, but I find the buzzing starts when the playing gets harder.
Very small adjustments can make dramatic differences, and I do sometimes think I need to get some quality nut files, I think the nut is far more influential than the amount of neck relief.

CarbonCopy

bbill335 said:

i wonder if the quality or "elasticity" (?) of the neck wood impacts how much/often truss adjustments need to be made. off the top of my head, my small-neck strat needs more adjusting than the chunkier-neck guitars and i don't think i've ever gotten it as flat as i'd like.

Gerz6558 said:

This peaked my interest.

it's "piqued"! i know nobody likes a pedant but rarely do i see anybody get this one correct!

You're correct of course, but Gerz6558 did at least manage capital letters at the beginning of sentences! 

Neill

andy_k said:

I know it is frowned upon, but I tend to have my nut slightly higher than a tech would set it, checked by being able to actually hear a note played above a fretted note around 12th fret.
I also prefer maybe slightly more relief than normal, which helps to make notes ring with absolutely no buzz, action is still fairly reasonable at around 2-3mm.
I gave up trying to get low action years ago, could not stand the buzzing that occurred, one of those things like trying to get intonation perfect, pretty much impossible.
The closer you get to perfect, the more the tiniest things stand out.
I like to have some things set up on the low side, just to give my hands a break, but I find the buzzing starts when the playing gets harder.
Very small adjustments can make dramatic differences, and I do sometimes think I need to get some quality nut files, I think the nut is far more influential than the amount of neck relief.

I have a Yamaha that has an adjustable nut and I'm surprised more guitars don't have them, makes life so much easier.  

I'm hesitant to raise the issue of the zero fret again... but the days when it was regarded as a cheap dodge are long gone, and I know at least one Luthier who argues positively in favour of them.  I think I'm right in saying Mosrite have remained faithful to the zero fret to the present day and I think some Gretsch guitars have them too.  In any case, if it's good enough for Martin Carthy...

guitars4you

andy_k said:

I know it is frowned upon, but I tend to have my nut slightly higher than a tech would set it, checked by being able to actually hear a note played above a fretted note around 12th fret.
I also prefer maybe slightly more relief than normal, which helps to make notes ring with absolutely no buzz, action is still fairly reasonable at around 2-3mm.
I gave up trying to get low action years ago, could not stand the buzzing that occurred, one of those things like trying to get intonation perfect, pretty much impossible.
The closer you get to perfect, the more the tiniest things stand out.
I like to have some things set up on the low side, just to give my hands a break, but I find the buzzing starts when the playing gets harder.
Very small adjustments can make dramatic differences, and I do sometimes think I need to get some quality nut files, I think the nut is far more influential than the amount of neck relief.

As I mentioned earlier, there is no correct setting that suits all - The key thing here is that you know what you like and what suits you - I know some players detest even the merest hint of a buzz  - I agree with a couple of points above that I can play a guitar and get no buzz, the next players makes it buzz like hell - Depends on your touch as well and that is not a wrong or a right factor - SRV and E Johnson have a total different touch regarding how they play - Yet both sound like a genius when they play 

I know a couple of guitar players have played Rory's old Strat and both said it was a bitch to play with a tough action - I would guess the same would be said of SRV's Strat and maybe that helps with the tone they acquire 

Overall it is the sum of the parts or the sum of all the adjustments from tip to toe

SlopeSoarer

Today, I received some Hosco nut files that I bought a couple of days ago. They seem expensive to buy but in reality I will have them for a long time (hopefully), oh and they have done a brilliant job!

Most guitars (in fact I'd say all) have needed their nuts adjusting, so a worth while investment.

JerkMoans

Inspired by this thread I'm just about to make my first solo, unaided assault on my Strat's truss rod.  Pray for me.

LastMantra

I'm not sure how people measure these things but going by you guys I must have a really high action. 
I do play pretty hard, use heavy-ish strings and don't like fret buzz.

drofluf

LastMantra said:

I'm not sure how people measure these things but going by you guys I must have a really high action. 
I do play pretty hard, use heavy-ish strings and don't like fret buzz.

I use one of these https://www.stringsdirect.co.uk/accessories-c2/guitar-care-c56/tools-c346/daddario-string-height-gauge-p13806 or at least a cheap eBay version

DeeTee

LastMantra said:

I'm not sure how people measure these things but going by you guys I must have a really high action. 
I do play pretty hard, use heavy-ish strings and don't like fret buzz.

It sounds like you do, but it also sounds like that's right for you. This is a perfect example of why it's good to start with the recommended settings and tweak to preference. You'd hate my guitars, and I'd find yours difficult to play.

KevS

Just to add on how "Elastic" the wood is...

Plus my findings with neck relief over the years..
there are people that know way more than me on this forum,,
this is just my personal experiences..

The higher the humidity the more elastic the wood becomes..
So for the exact same amount of string tension from whatever regular string set you use,,
in Summer your neck is liable to concave bow more..

I had a real problem with humidity and lost guitars,,well old style Fender necks through it..
I ended up buying a dehumidifier,,I found that my remaining guitar necks stabilised..Phew..
I lost 3 Fender necks though...It only seems a problem with some houses / areas..
it's worth keeping an eye out for though..

So if your concave neck bow keeps growing a lot,,you have a humidity problem..
If you want to save your guitars,,buy a dehumidifier...

It is also handy to be able to keep a measurement of the relief / concave bow,
just to keep track of what is happening with your guitars.. 
Also it is handy to know around what relief you like as a starting adjustment with a new,or new to you guitar..
Even then,some guitars obviously feel / play better with more or less relief..

Also the straighter the board,,I find the further you can bend...
The steeper the board camber,,the more it limits bending distance,,still no idea how Gilmour can bend so far on a 7.25 radius..
He says he bends around the camber..I have no idea what he means,but it seems to work for him..

Bigger frets can make bending easier,,but make strings choke out earlier if the fingerboard camber remains the same..
You often see bigger frets accompanying flatter necks to counteract this....
There is a way to make the fret camber flatter than the board camber by lessening the amount of fret in the middle
of the board...ie Across the board,not along it..

Some guitars you can't do the 5 semitone "Gilmour bend" or have to raise the action to get it..
I try to be able to achieve this bend on guitars as part of my set up procedure..
If you keep on raising with no better result,chances are you have uneven frets..

Sorry the "Gilmour Bend" is
David Gilmour's 5 Semitone bend in the Another Brick in the wall solo..
13th Fret B string..C to F..

Along with the Above bend,,,
I do open string pull offs feeling too spongy can show up too much relief for me,
I do this on the A minor Pentatonic 5th to 7th fret,
Especially on the G and D strings..Check on B minor 7th to 9th fret for good luck too..

I tend to put a Capo on the first fret a fret by hand at the 17th fret,,then check the gap from there..
Usually the most gap is around the 7th or 8th fret..Your free hand can use a feeler gauge if needed..

100% agreed on your relief amount can only get lesser depending on how level and well crowned your frets are..
How good your fret job is is the final arbiter..

Sorry if anything sounds confused..
This is how I as a rookie deal with Neck relief..

My touch has lightened over the years too..
Maybe partially because I stopped having to fight the guitar too much when I tuned my set up,to my own physicality..

I hope my ramble at least helps some folk... lol

francer

KevS said:

Just to add on how "Elastic" the wood is...

Plus my findings with neck relief over the years..
there are people that know way more than me on this forum,,
this is just my personal experiences..

The higher the humidity the more elastic the wood becomes..
So for the exact same amount of string tension from whatever regular string set you use,,
in Summer your neck is liable to concave bow more..

I had a real problem with humidity and lost guitars,,well old style Fender necks through it..
I ended up buying a dehumidifier,,I found that my remaining guitar necks stabilised..Phew..
I lost 3 Fender necks though...It only seems a problem with some houses / areas..
it's worth keeping an eye out for though..

So if your concave neck bow keeps growing a lot,,you have a humidity problem..
If you want to save your guitars,,buy a dehumidifier...

It is also handy to be able to keep a measurement of the relief / concave bow,
just to keep track of what is happening with your guitars.. 
Also it is handy to know around what relief you like as a starting adjustment with a new,or new to you guitar..
Even then,some guitars obviously feel / play better with more or less relief..

Also the straighter the board,,I find the further you can bend...
The steeper the board camber,,the more it limits bending distance,,still no idea how Gilmour can bend so far on a 7.25 radius..
He says he bends around the camber..I have no idea what he means,but it seems to work for him..

Bigger frets can make bending easier,,but make strings choke out earlier if the fingerboard camber remains the same..
You often see bigger frets accompanying flatter necks to counteract this....
There is a way to make the fret camber flatter than the board camber by lessening the amount of fret in the middle
of the board...ie Across the board,not along it..

Some guitars you can't do the 5 semitone "Gilmour bend" or have to raise the action to get it..
I try to be able to achieve this bend on guitars as part of my set up procedure..
If you keep on raising with no better result,chances are you have uneven frets..

Sorry the "Gilmour Bend" is
David Gilmour's 5 Semitone bend in the Another Brick in the wall solo..
13th Fret B string..C to F..

Along with the Above bend,,,
I do open string pull offs feeling too spongy can show up too much relief for me,
I do this on the A minor Pentatonic 5th to 7th fret,
Especially on the G and D strings..Check on B minor 7th to 9th fret for good luck too..

I tend to put a Capo on the first fret a fret by hand at the 17th fret,,then check the gap from there..
Usually the most gap is around the 7th or 8th fret..Your free hand can use a feeler gauge if needed..

100% agreed on your relief amount can only get lesser depending on how level and well crowned your frets are..
How good your fret job is is the final arbiter..

Sorry if anything sounds confused..
This is how I as a rookie deal with Neck relief..

My touch has lightened over the years too..
Maybe partially because I stopped having to fight the guitar too much when I tuned my set up,to my own physicality..

I hope my ramble at least helps some folk... lol

I can’t argue with your real life experiences but I would expect increased humidity to increase back bow as the fretboard expands with increased moisture relative to the maple of the neck which should be sealed, and hence less affected. I guess I’m assuming rosewood (or similar) boards, rather then solid maple necks. Certainly, fretsprout is caused by low humidity and subsequent fretboard shrinkage causing fret ends to show.

KevS

My Rosewood Boarded Guitars went into Concave bow..
Wood even when seasoned or these days kiln dried is still hygroscopic..
The higher the humidity,,the more flexible the wood is,,hence for the same amount of string pull..
the neck will move into a convex bow more..

I have found the old style pre CBS Fender necks with Slab boards to be one of the more unstable necks out there..
In my case these were reissue style necks..One Mexican and one Japanese..
I found they ran out of truss rod faster..
The thought has even passed my mind that the old style truss rod set up is weaker  in pull than the modern ones that adjust at the head stock,,I only have 90s onwards pre CBS reissue truss rods..
The originals may be different..
The actual truss rod nut can also crush the maple it is sitting against from the pull of the strings in the old style necks,
this means you can run out of truss rod too....
Humidity can destroy these older style necks..

I have actually experienced frets lifting around the middle of the board from too high humidity also..
Low Humidity can indeed cause fret ends to become more exposed..

The actual maple used can vary hugely,,if flat sawn,,some pieces can be prone to being more flexible than others..
The Rosewood board swells and becomes more flexible and flexes the Maple with it.....
Slab Boards may be even more prone to the problem than veneer boards..

The replacement necks I bought were all Quarter sawn Maple for stability,,
With headstock truss rod adjustment so I don't have to take the neck off either..
i tried to take the best precautions for longevity I could.. 
Fender don't seem to bother much with what wood they use as long as it is the correct species..
They don't seem to cut it for stability though..
Economics seems to rule above potential longevity..

 

Creed_Clicks

I'd love to be able to adjust truss rods, but as I can barely intonate a guitar, I wouldn't attempt it. It can make a huge difference though. I experienced this on a Martin acoustic. Felt like a different instrument afterwards.

springhead

KevS said:

Just to add on how "Elastic" the wood is...

Plus my findings with neck relief over the years..
there are people that know way more than me on this forum,,
this is just my personal experiences..

The higher the humidity the more elastic the wood becomes..
So for the exact same amount of string tension from whatever regular string set you use,,
in Summer your neck is liable to concave bow more..

I had a real problem with humidity and lost guitars,,well old style Fender necks through it..
I ended up buying a dehumidifier,,I found that my remaining guitar necks stabilised..Phew..
I lost 3 Fender necks though...It only seems a problem with some houses / areas..
it's worth keeping an eye out for though..

So if your concave neck bow keeps growing a lot,,you have a humidity problem..
If you want to save your guitars,,buy a dehumidifier...

It is also handy to be able to keep a measurement of the relief / concave bow,
just to keep track of what is happening with your guitars.. 
Also it is handy to know around what relief you like as a starting adjustment with a new,or new to you guitar..
Even then,some guitars obviously feel / play better with more or less relief..

Also the straighter the board,,I find the further you can bend...
The steeper the board camber,,the more it limits bending distance,,still no idea how Gilmour can bend so far on a 7.25 radius..
He says he bends around the camber..I have no idea what he means,but it seems to work for him..

Bigger frets can make bending easier,,but make strings choke out earlier if the fingerboard camber remains the same..
You often see bigger frets accompanying flatter necks to counteract this....
There is a way to make the fret camber flatter than the board camber by lessening the amount of fret in the middle
of the board...ie Across the board,not along it..

Some guitars you can't do the 5 semitone "Gilmour bend" or have to raise the action to get it..
I try to be able to achieve this bend on guitars as part of my set up procedure..
If you keep on raising with no better result,chances are you have uneven frets..

Sorry the "Gilmour Bend" is
David Gilmour's 5 Semitone bend in the Another Brick in the wall solo..
13th Fret B string..C to F..

Along with the Above bend,,,
I do open string pull offs feeling too spongy can show up too much relief for me,
I do this on the A minor Pentatonic 5th to 7th fret,
Especially on the G and D strings..Check on B minor 7th to 9th fret for good luck too..

I tend to put a Capo on the first fret a fret by hand at the 17th fret,,then check the gap from there..
Usually the most gap is around the 7th or 8th fret..Your free hand can use a feeler gauge if needed..

100% agreed on your relief amount can only get lesser depending on how level and well crowned your frets are..
How good your fret job is is the final arbiter..

Sorry if anything sounds confused..
This is how I as a rookie deal with Neck relief..

My touch has lightened over the years too..
Maybe partially because I stopped having to fight the guitar too much when I tuned my set up,to my own physicality..

I hope my ramble at least helps some folk... lol

The Brick in the Wall solo including that bend was done on a ‘50s Les Pail goldtop which probably helped - flatter radius.