I Never Realised Just How Much Difference Truss Rod Adjustment Can Make

munckee

I've had a couple of guitars professionally set up which I thought the truss rod adjustment was fine with, both times the truss rod was loosened and it felt looser and played nicer.

Therefore proving I don't know what I'm doing. 

SlopeSoarer

I'm aware I'm taking my own thread off topic but just a bit more of what I've been doing since adjusting the truss rod.

Following lack of recommendations for a Luthier on Anglesey/North Wales (and as mentioned earlier) I decided to buy some nut files as this was an obvious issue as fretting at the first fret was pulling out of tune. I quite enjoyed the process and the guitar definitely was much nicer to play however it did highlight a couple of high frets and slight fret buzz (string height at 12th fret was very low at 1mm on the low E) depending on attack.

Still no recommendations for luthier so I decided to get the triangular files out... I do have an engineering background (though a long time ago) and I have read quite a bit on setups, just how much could go wrong!?

Well I took my time, lots of use of notched straight edge and rocker, masking tape, felt tip, file, 2000 grit W&D and wire wool. 

String height is now 1.6mm Low E a tad lower on the high E... no fret buzz and overall very happy.

The triangular file worked well but wonder if it is worth buying a decent crowning file or even just buy a better quality triangular file? Any thoughts on this?

I'm also aware that it is easier to carry out work on a cheap guitar rather than an expensive one! 

KevS

springhead said:

KevS said:

Just to add on how "Elastic" the wood is...

Plus my findings with neck relief over the years..
there are people that know way more than me on this forum,,
this is just my personal experiences..

The higher the humidity the more elastic the wood becomes..
So for the exact same amount of string tension from whatever regular string set you use,,
in Summer your neck is liable to concave bow more..

I had a real problem with humidity and lost guitars,,well old style Fender necks through it..
I ended up buying a dehumidifier,,I found that my remaining guitar necks stabilised..Phew..
I lost 3 Fender necks though...It only seems a problem with some houses / areas..
it's worth keeping an eye out for though..

So if your concave neck bow keeps growing a lot,,you have a humidity problem..
If you want to save your guitars,,buy a dehumidifier...

It is also handy to be able to keep a measurement of the relief / concave bow,
just to keep track of what is happening with your guitars.. 
Also it is handy to know around what relief you like as a starting adjustment with a new,or new to you guitar..
Even then,some guitars obviously feel / play better with more or less relief..

Also the straighter the board,,I find the further you can bend...
The steeper the board camber,,the more it limits bending distance,,still no idea how Gilmour can bend so far on a 7.25 radius..
He says he bends around the camber..I have no idea what he means,but it seems to work for him..

Bigger frets can make bending easier,,but make strings choke out earlier if the fingerboard camber remains the same..
You often see bigger frets accompanying flatter necks to counteract this....
There is a way to make the fret camber flatter than the board camber by lessening the amount of fret in the middle
of the board...ie Across the board,not along it..

Some guitars you can't do the 5 semitone "Gilmour bend" or have to raise the action to get it..
I try to be able to achieve this bend on guitars as part of my set up procedure..
If you keep on raising with no better result,chances are you have uneven frets..

Sorry the "Gilmour Bend" is
David Gilmour's 5 Semitone bend in the Another Brick in the wall solo..
13th Fret B string..C to F..

Along with the Above bend,,,
I do open string pull offs feeling too spongy can show up too much relief for me,
I do this on the A minor Pentatonic 5th to 7th fret,
Especially on the G and D strings..Check on B minor 7th to 9th fret for good luck too..

I tend to put a Capo on the first fret a fret by hand at the 17th fret,,then check the gap from there..
Usually the most gap is around the 7th or 8th fret..Your free hand can use a feeler gauge if needed..

100% agreed on your relief amount can only get lesser depending on how level and well crowned your frets are..
How good your fret job is is the final arbiter..

Sorry if anything sounds confused..
This is how I as a rookie deal with Neck relief..

My touch has lightened over the years too..
Maybe partially because I stopped having to fight the guitar too much when I tuned my set up,to my own physicality..

I hope my ramble at least helps some folk... lol

The Brick in the Wall solo including that bend was done on a ‘50s Les Pail goldtop which probably helped - flatter radius. 

I knew that and Semi forgot about it..he does some pretty big bends on Shine on You Crazy Diamond too..
In fact in general David Gilmour is a Huge Bender..He is one of the Biggest Benders ever..Sorry..

Also did 1950s and up to mid 70s Gibsons not have a 9.5 radius board..?

crunchman

springhead said:

The Brick in the Wall solo including that bend was done on a ‘50s Les Pail goldtop which probably helped - flatter radius. 

Shorter scale as well, so slightly less string tension.

LastMantra

crunchman said:

springhead said:

The Brick in the Wall solo including that bend was done on a ‘50s Les Pail goldtop which probably helped - flatter radius. 

Shorter scale as well, so slightly less string tension.

I don't know why but I actually find it easier to bend on my strat than my Gibson (same strings). I assumed it was longer strings but it appears to be the opposite of what everyone else thinks.

LastMantra

DeeTee said:

LastMantra said:

I'm not sure how people measure these things but going by you guys I must have a really high action. 
I do play pretty hard, use heavy-ish strings and don't like fret buzz.

It sounds like you do, but it also sounds like that's right for you. This is a perfect example of why it's good to start with the recommended settings and tweak to preference. You'd hate my guitars, and I'd find yours difficult to play.

Yeah I suppose. It’s just when people talk about 1mm-2mm, even picking very gently my strings move more than that. 
Some people must have a very soft touch.

LastMantra

I'm just weird 

Neill

LastMantra said:

crunchman said:

springhead said:

The Brick in the Wall solo including that bend was done on a ‘50s Les Pail goldtop which probably helped - flatter radius. 

Shorter scale as well, so slightly less string tension.

I don't know why but I actually find it easier to bend on my strat than my Gibson (same strings). I assumed it was longer strings but it appears to be the opposite of what everyone else thinks.

This is one of those areas where I'm unsure about the received wisdom, which is that because shorter strings require less tension to bring them to pitch, they are easier to bend.  

I accept a longer string requires more pull (given the same guage of course) to bring it to pitch, but when it comes to bending notes it's easier to deflect a long string than a short one.  I guess the long string needs to be deflected more than a short one to achieve the same change in pitch, and this is where my ignorance of physics etc. lets me down...

Interestingly, it always feels to me as though a Floyd Rose guitar is easier to bend strings on, and I thought this must be something to do with the strings being clamped at the nut, but should that really make any difference?  Surely it's only the scale length that matters? 

  

crunchman

On a guitar with a floating trem you will be pulling the bridge up slightly when you bend the strings.

With a longer scale length and/or a trem, it might feel easier to bend, but you will have to move the string further to get the same increase in tension/pitch.

KevS

It is also partly how far you can bend across the board before you choke out..
I imagine the longer the longer the scale length the further you can bend for a given board camber...So I imagine a string would choke out on a 24.75 scale length with a 9.5 inch radius sooner than it would  it would on a 25.5 Camber..I may be wrong on this one though...There are so many variables could have caused that to happen to me..
it seems to be my general experience though..Camber and Scale Length both affect how far you can bend..
Action of course comes into it too...

chromatuna

Maybe it’s something in the vaccine? I also tweaked a truss rod this year for the first time in 45 years of playing and amazingly achieved the desired result - alleviated choking higher up the board. Used feelers and internet advice from somewhere or other

LastMantra

drofluf said:

LastMantra said:

I'm not sure how people measure these things but going by you guys I must have a really high action. 
I do play pretty hard, use heavy-ish strings and don't like fret buzz.

I use one of these https://www.stringsdirect.co.uk/accessories-c2/guitar-care-c56/tools-c346/daddario-string-height-gauge-p13806 or at least a cheap eBay version

That looks neat, thanks.

JerkMoans

Just started meself.

It’s like finding your guitar’s g-spot.

Nerine

I too adjusted three rods in the last couple of days. I also adjusted action and intonation. 

Both guitars and a bass were all drastically improved. They were my friends guitars. All American Fenders but I felt more comfortable adjusting these than my Suhrs and Les Paul. 

But either way. Transformative. 

Guitars felt a lot slinkier, less stiff on bends etc. 

Mate was well happy with them. As was I to be fair. Might even do my own.