Scottish Referendum question(s)

Phil_aka_Pip

I still think Suffolk should unilaterally declare independence from the rest of the UK.

Fretwired

Drew_fx said:

Fundamentally, I just think that isolationist policies don't really do that well in the long term. I find the 'yes' camp to cherry pick facts quite a bit, and there is a lot of anti-English sentiment that gets stirred up. I don't find them any more reasoned than the BNP or EDL. But they get coverage and sympathy because even the English are anti-English. It's quite a trait of our culture.

Sadly all true @Drew_fx .... you only need to look at how much money Salmond and co are wasting on commemorating the battle of Banockburn ... they're only bothering because they beat the English. Maybe the English should celebrate the battle of Nevilles Cross .. ;-)

VimFuego

I was stationed in Colchester for ever more and the basic premise of most of the exercises we did up at Stanta was fighting against the East Anglian Liberation Front. If you were really ugly or generally looked like mum and dad were also your aunt and uncle then you were tasked with being red forces.

Clarky

I have a funny feeling that very little will change in a meaningful way for the average Scot no matter what the outcome...

an independent Scotland will be replacing one bunch of dodgey bastards with another with the only thing being that they'll be your own dirty bastards..

personally.. I don't really care either way.. so long as we invade France..

that said... invading France would of course be more fun with our bro's from up north along side us..

johnnyurq

imalone;311860" said:

johnnyurq said:



Eh no not really I am for devolution all over the UK and never said what you attribute to me.



I think you will find it was Fretwired that said most of that.

Sorry, you're right, was posting from my phone last and got the original quoting messed up.

No worries dude I thought that may the case, if your eyes are half as crap as mine it happens a lot. 

scrumhalf

I've managed to avoid poetry since doing English Lit A Level, but this one by Roger McGough comes to mind:

I wanna be the leader
I wanna be the leader
Can I be the leader?
Can I? I can?
Promise? Promise?
Yippee I'm the leader
I'm the leader

OK what shall we do?

johnnyurq

Drew_fx;311865" said:

Fundamentally, I just think that isolationist policies don't really do that well in the long term. I find the 'yes' camp to cherry pick facts quite a bit, and there is a lot of anti-English sentiment that gets stirred up. I don't find them any more reasoned than the BNP or EDL. But they get coverage and sympathy because even the English are anti-English. It's quite a trait of our culture.

@Drew_fx

I can see where you are coming from and in truth dislike fervent nationalism and indeed isolationist crap.

But I fear you are lumping in an awful lot of folks in with Nationalism who are neither natural nats or have any similarities between the likes of UKIP and BNP etc. At lesast you never said te IRA though as I have herad before now.

It is possible to want self more determination even by way of an Indy referendum without being like that and frankly it shows that you haven't the first clue about our politics and are taking the ragtops position that we are all like that. By way of balance there are a lot of aspects of your politics we haven't a scooby about and cannopt understand.

I think that is why we are where we are in a small part and seemingly there is little interest in doing so by some on both sides of the fence.

Yes we have narrow minded individuals just as you have who are anti English, Welsh or Irish, so what it is everywhere in the UK and in broadly similar per capita numbers, I would guess.

But to tar all with the same brush as these loud and dumb minorities is frankly very silly and would be like me stating that the SE of England are all slavering BNP/NF supporters.

For the record there is quite a lot of anti Scottish rhetoric and shit too (especially since the Indy referendum begun) but I would be loathe to judge all or even a majority of English folk as being the same. That is despite getting verbal and physical abuse when working or holidaying in England for being a "fucking jock" and other choice names, It would be wrong of me to conflate a few twats with the majority so I don't.

In the main most of us are very similar to the folks all over the UK and hold no animosity to any other folks from around the UK England included. The morons are a very small percentage as they are down your way.

If you were here you would see that yes the SNP do cherry pick and behave badly but nowhere near as bad as the big 3 parties have done so since the beginning of the whole thing. If you saw and were aware of some of it you would see why the Yes vote grew for a good while. They did a better job than the SNP did on that score.

Back to your point I would have preferred more/better devolution and preserve the Union but all the promises to do so and head off the referendum were kicked ever further done the road.

In fact Blair and his cronies who offered and promised in their manifesto to push Devo forward tried their utmost to scupper and renege on it, so excuse me of I have no faith in Westmister promises. I am certain that Scotland is not unique in thining this way.

Difference is we have a unique chance to change things and hopefully get better governance, if anywhere else fells hard done by then start your own campaigns and not slag off  and snipe at our efforts.

|If the end result is that after the inevitabke no we get Devo max or similar and keep the Union then I will be stoked, but I cannoit help thinking that if some form of extra Devo was on offer there would not have been a referendum.

This was known by most that it would be the case so why force the hand to a full in out referendum, oh yes division and animosity between us all suits governments.

Many wanting change have changed from Yes to No with the carrot of mroie Devo and I hope it pans out but I simpy do not trust any of the bikg 3 to deliver on many of their promises.

TL:DR

In summary we want change not to be nationalists or to tell English folk GTF and be anti and I can assure you me and a great many others are genuine and sincere in that.

Can we now can the lazy stereotyping and repeating of the BS pedalled on the poular media.


Drew_fx;311772" said:

cooorrrrrrr.... say ken again.....


Do ye Ken fit I mean laddie, so fit like tho noo Ken.

Is that dirty enough for you studmuffin?

I thought you would be more Barbie than Ken though. Or are you one of those try-sexuals.


Now where is my fiormal muumuu for my visit to Bohemian Grove.

On second thoughts I will stick to the Justified Ancients of MuMu, to the bridge, to the bridge.

johnnyurq

chrispy108;311787" said:

johnnyurq said:

For the record my reasons for wishing for Independence are politcal, societal and to a lesser extent economic reasons. I am one of those leftiesd that woudln't be bothered if we were a bit worse off to begin with because it is incumbent upon us to build the society and wealth we would wish to have.












Spot on!

The votes nothing to do with me (English living in England), but I can't help but feel that people voting for/against based on being £50/500 a year better/worse off have missed the point entirely.

That's a reason to change gas supplier or your supermarket, not the governance of your country.

Cannot agree more @chrispy108 it is pretty shalliow to base such important and big matters on a few quid. Building a good decent society will cost and if you want it enough then so be it.

EDIT

LIke Phil and others I too will drink beer to voting beer.

Drew_TNBD

I've never bummed a Scotchman before !!

johnnyurq

Drew_fx;311994" said:

I've never bummed a Scotchman before !!

First time foir everything sweetcheecks.


Saves time that we go commando under our kilts, one fluid movement is all it takes.

Drew_TNBD

corrrrrrrrr say ken again!!!

johnnyurq

Drew_fx said:

corrrrrrrrr say ken again!!!

Aye I Ken you like to hear people say Ken, ye Ken fit I mean.

You areone sick puppy dude, keep uo the good work.

Is it someone called Ken that moisten you up or is the Doric language?

If Doric go to Aberdeen and you will have multiple orgasms everwhere you go.

Rocker

Wow!  I suspected the situation for Scotland/UK was complicated but it is almost too much for me to take in.  Fascinating read guys, many thanks for the replies.  I will have to brush up on my UK history, in fact I know very little apart from the Boer and World Wars.  I read a few books about Churchill [Churchill, an unruly life by Norman Rose was the most recent] but none written by Churchill himself.  Time to tick that box.

Of course I wish you all well no matter how the vote goes.  And I commend your knowledge of the ins and outs of Yes or No votes. 

DiscoStu

Here's some Doric for you to decipher, @Drew_fx

Fit fit fits fit fit?

Drew_TNBD

Dorricisms generally do make my manhole rigid.

No. That's a silly way to put it.

Makes my dick hard. I wrote this on a train.

Fretwired

Looks like Westminster is trying to bribe the Scots and buy the election by offering more devolution and tax raising and setting powers if people vote no. So the English won't be able to vote on Scottish tax matters but Scots MPs will still be able to vote on English tax matters.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/11011773/Cameron-Miliband-and-Clegg-sign-up-for-more-Scottish-powers-ahead-of-TV-debate.html

ICBM

Fretwired said:

Looks like Westminster is trying to bribe the Scots and buy the election by offering more devolution and tax raising and setting powers if people vote no.

Or you could see it as moving towards the position that the majority of Scots actually want but are not being offered in the referendum itself...

Fretwired said:

So the English won't be able to vote on Scottish tax matters but Scots MPs will still be able to vote on English tax matters.

And hopefully that might provide enough incentive to finally change that.

Drew_TNBD

ICBM said:

And hopefully that might provide enough incentive to finally change that.

Doubtful. We've been in that situation for a long time, and no-one has done anything about it thus far.

ICBM

Drew_fx said:

ICBM said:

And hopefully that might provide enough incentive to finally change that.

Doubtful. We've been in that situation for a long time, and no-one has done anything about it thus far.

But nothing talks like money.

Drew_TNBD

Perhaps.