Buying a flat, getting a mortgage, and the BS that comes with it...

Phil_aka_Pip

holnrew said:

The only time I've been to Luton is when my cousin married his cousin.

But Luton isn't in Norfolk
:-S

sted

@drew_fx I work in the construction industry mate, albeit not on accommodation builds (thank fuck!) I can honestly say that modern building methods and materials are possibly the worst I have ever seen, not to mention the standard of workmanship is extremely piss poor IMO, everything is geared around speed which has simplified construction methods but seriously dumbed down quality. 

Modern buildings are more about the green credentials than anything else, that's where the focus has been for the last few years, making them energy efficient and with really low leakage rates. 

Unless you are paying top dollar in a semi prestigious development then you are likely to get timber frame insulated panels with block party walls, stud internal walls and pre form bison type floors, it will meet building regs criteria for noise transference but they aren't particularly stringent, most higher spec builds will augment the specification but that will certainly be reflected in the price. 

Don't want to put you off but go in with your eyes open, older buildings are costly for a reason, most modern builds are only built with a lifespan of 25 years in mind.

Phil_aka_Pip

@sted too right, I saw some new houses go up in the next village. They look like brick but it isn't the brick that's holding the roof up. There's a frame made of 2"x2" timber, with sheets of coarse chipboard nailed over it to stiffen it. The big bad wolf would have to huff and puff only once to blow those places down. And the damn cheek of asking £350k for them was unbelieveable!

FreddieVanHalen

I'd definitely echo the concerns about new build prices and service charges.

I bought a new build and overpaid for it basically. Plus we've been through three or four changes of management company in the 14 years I've lived in the place and some of them have been better than others.

At least paying for a slightly more prestigious development got reasonable sound insulation - much better than other places I've lived in. One other new build I rented I could hear nothing through the walls but I could hear the morning alarm clock of someone three floors above me.

Same thing in a room I rented in a council block in South West London a few years later....

On the house thing, oh how I wish I'd bought one instead of this flat, but with the way prices have gone, buying a house is out of the question for me now...and I guess many other people too! (assuming London)

Drew_TNBD

Yeah. A house is basically unobtainable for us.

Phil_aka_Pip

Drew_fx said:

Yeah. A house is basically unobtainable for us.

Sadly, this will always be true while you insist on living in London.

Drew_TNBD

Phil_aka_Pip said:

Drew_fx said:

Yeah. A house is basically unobtainable for us.

Sadly, this will always be true while you insist on living in London.

Not necessarily. Friend of mine just put his 1 bed flat on the market and has put on offer on a house around the corner from where he is currently. He's older than I am to be fair, but he's played it fairly well.

We got our Agreement in Principle last night. Looks like this could very well be happening.

Still unsure about this particular place though.

Drew_TNBD

So we're doing it.... *gulp*

I'm actually quite into the idea now. I've come around. The thing that is on my mind right now is room treatment for sound.

Phil_aka_Pip

Drew_fx said:

The thing that is on my mind right now is room treatment for sound.

While that will help, I fear that you may well run into the sound travels along joists, floorboards, and structural elements problem. Its relatively easy to prevent treble from getting through a wall, it's a lot harder to stop bass getting into the next flat. You may well need a false floor isolated by shock absorbers from the real floor.  

Drew_TNBD

Phil_aka_Pip said:

Drew_fx said:

The thing that is on my mind right now is room treatment for sound.

While that will help, I fear that you may well run into the sound travels along joists, floorboards, and structural elements problem. Its relatively easy to prevent treble from getting through a wall, it's a lot harder to stop bass getting into the next flat. You may well need a false floor isolated by shock absorbers from the real floor.  

That's pretty hardcore. You don't need to do that for a lot of things. Perhaps bass guitar and a drumkit. Amp modellers and 8" monitor speakers? You need to try and have some absorption around 100hz, but you don't really have to be OCD about it. Been doing my research

Phil_aka_Pip

@Drew_fx

I hope you're right. I lived in a flat where the woman upstairs and her kids apparently had the right to make as much noise as they liked, but if I got a guitar out the police would be round before I'd finished tuning it. I didn't have a drumkit, or even a decent drum machine, and I monitored using small hifi speakers so it wasn't as if I were using a Marshall stack in there.

EDIT

If you can hear their telly, they will hear your hifi or your studio.

holnrew

The flat below me, and the flats either side of that are unoccupied at the moment. I don't play electric guitar, but I not having to worry about the TV is nice.

As is not having Indians talking loudly below me.

Sambostar

I know modern flats are built on a show string these days and if you fall, you will go straight through the internal walls. 

Small developer flat conversions are often like rooms in a bedsit with no acoustic insulation whatsoever with the only thing separating you from your neighbour being and plasterboard, floorboards and joists. 

However, if you can get a purpose built, 90's era pre cast concrete flat that has sectional concrete floors and ceilings on piers and decent acoustically insulated walls, it gives you more volume room. Often the brick clad OAP retirement flats are pretty good.

Don't overlook leasehold if you can extend the lease for a hundred years to add value and the roof etc won't be your concern, even if you do have to pay a few thousand in ground rent every year.  You can usually do any improvements if the landlord will give you permission.  After all many of these flats won't even be here in a hundred years, so freehold is pretty stupid anyway. 

I have never understood the desire to get a freehold flat to be honest, but obviously it depends on the set up.  Usually you just get a tonne of problems and responsibilities for the money and if the block gets a demolition order, there is nothing you can do about it, even if you own it and you'll receive a paltry sum as compensation.

Also don't understand why you can secure a £400,000 mortgage for something that is essentially built like a multi-storey car park or might be in a high rise block that is nearing the end of it's designed lifespan, but can't even get £20,000 for a Reema or timber house, even when the plot alone is worth the same as the house.

joneve

Best of luck Drew! 

We are also now beginning to get the wheels in motion on moving - viewing 6 different properties tomorrow (all new-ish builds), and still have our eye on a brand new Bovis house, which isn't built yet but suits our needs and we can negotiate quite a bit to get loads of stuff included. We are under no illusion of the quality of some new builds, but the house would suit us perfectly and is the only one on the development (in our price range) that has an attached garage and is in a great location...But that won't be released for a few months, so in the mean time we're looking at other houses in the mean time in case something comes up that we love. 

We're in a lucky enough position that we can keep our current place to rent out so have no chain issues, which will help when negotiating price and whatnot. It does involve having to pay back a family member who can loan us some towards the deposit, but it makes it all very doable to actually get to a house that will allow us to start a family.

I'm sure it will become massively stressful over the coming months, but I'm sure it will all be worth it. 

Drew_TNBD

joneve said:

Best of luck Drew! 

We are also now beginning to get the wheels in motion on moving - viewing 6 different properties tomorrow (all new-ish builds), and still have our eye on a brand new Bovis house, which isn't built yet but suits our needs and we can negotiate quite a bit to get loads of stuff included. We are under no illusion of the quality of some new builds, but the house would suit us perfectly and is the only one on the development (in our price range) that has an attached garage and is in a great location...But that won't be released for a few months, so in the mean time we're looking at other houses in the mean time in case something comes up that we love. 

We're in a lucky enough position that we can keep our current place to rent out so have no chain issues, which will help when negotiating price and whatnot. It does involve having to pay back a family member who can loan us some towards the deposit, but it makes it all very doable to actually get to a house that will allow us to start a family.

I'm sure it will become massively stressful over the coming months, but I'm sure it will all be worth it. 

Good luck too chap!

fastboy

sted said:

@drew_fx I work in the construction industry mate, albeit not on accommodation builds (thank fuck!) I can honestly say that modern building methods and materials are possibly the worst I have ever seen, not to mention the standard of workmanship is extremely piss poor IMO, everything is geared around speed which has simplified construction methods but seriously dumbed down quality. 

Modern buildings are more about the green credentials than anything else, that's where the focus has been for the last few years, making them energy efficient and with really low leakage rates. 

Unless you are paying top dollar in a semi prestigious development then you are likely to get timber frame insulated panels with block party walls, stud internal walls and pre form bison type floors, it will meet building regs criteria for noise transference but they aren't particularly stringent, most higher spec builds will augment the specification but that will certainly be reflected in the price. 

Don't want to put you off but go in with your eyes open, older buildings are costly for a reason, most modern builds are only built with a lifespan of 25 years in mind.

@sted, are they really that bad that they'll only last 25 years?

What's your definition of last? Do they fall down after 25 years or just need lots of items renewing?

All the workman I know will refer to new builds from the last 20 odd years as lego houses etc etc but just curious as to the long term of modern housing?

I have no vested interest in the outcome as my house is early 60's and built using good construction technique and materials according to the structural engineer who did all the calculations on a couple of steels that were put in.

VimFuego

heh, whereas the structural engineer who looked at our 400 year old roof said it wouldn't last 5 years.

fastboy

VimFuego said:

heh, whereas the structural engineer who looked at our 400 year old roof said it wouldn't last 5 years.

Built to last 405 years is still pretty impressive !!!

imalone

Things are built to last a certain amount of time then after that you're on your own, I think roofs for instance are expected to go for 20-30 years (http://www.mcgarryandmadsen.com/inspection/Blog/Entries/2013/1/21_Whats_the_average_lifespan_of_a_roof.html seems to back up my vague remembrance), but obviously many go for much longer. Wouldn't be terribly surprised if modern builds are built to a shorter target than previously, and also that other curse of modern construction: closer tolerances, which means when they aim for 30 years that's what you get, rather than something which is built rather sturdier than it needs to be to ensure it makes the distance.

sted

fastboy said:

@sted, are they really that bad that they'll only last 25 years?

What's your definition of last? Do they fall down after 25 years or just need lots of items renewing?

All the workman I know will refer to new builds from the last 20 odd years as lego houses etc etc but just curious as to the long term of modern housing?

I have no vested interest in the outcome as my house is early 60's and built using good construction technique and materials according to the structural engineer who did all the calculations on a couple of steels that were put in.

Well nothing as dramatic as that, I think its termed a "Useful" lifespan but after 25 years there would be an expectancy for major refurbishment to keep it economically viable.
Certainly in terms of the energy market we will continue to get squeezed on prices which will force more and more the issue of energy efficiency and renewable sources, any property owner that hasn't had significant upgrades in this department will find themselves with a hefty energy bill each year.
The thing is efficiency isn't always balanced with longevity, energy efficiency can be obtained with pretty basic materials and all major constructors look for ways to improve profitability, cutting down on construction times is a massive earner for them.
Why plaster a wall when you can tape and joint it? Why screw something when it can be glued? Why use brick when preformed timber panels with cladding can do the same job?