Stratocaster vibrato systems - use all 5 springs please. Leo did that for a reason...

CaseOfAce

Not my words but those of Jeff 'Skunk' Baxter in this month's Guitarist magazine when asked about his favourite vibrato systems...

"I'm a big fan of the stratocaster because it's got a lot of play. There are probably going to be people that won't like me for saying this, but use all 5 springs, please. Leo did that for a reason. If you haven't done it, do it. And if you have done it, you're already there. I think it's an excellent system."

Rather frustratingly he didn't elaborate further (or wasn't asked).

So... what's the thinking here? I've only ever used strat trems with 3 springs. 
Using 5 would mean less movement possible on the bar, higher tension - but better tone or stability tuning wise?

elstoof

When I tried 5 springs and it was so tight I bent the bar

simonhpieman

Is there something you can do to keep the trem floating and still not have the strings go out of tune on bends? Would 5 springs help that?

bertie

perhaps use 5 and release the claw a little

Danny1969

simonhpieman said:

Is there something you can do to keep the trem floating and still not have the strings go out of tune on bends? Would 5 springs help that?

It's generally the nut that causes that issue - assuming the tuners are good and the strings are stretched in. You can get stuff to lube the nut so the strings don't stick in it. If it's a badly cut nut though then you will still have problems. 

I think the Fender 6 screw trem is the best if it's set up right but I'm a 3 spring man 

Jonathangus

From what I can see, he uses 11-50 gauge strings.  The higher the string tension, the higher tension you need in the springs to balance it.  So five springs with heavy strings makes sense.

Funkfingers

Fender electric guitars were designed to work with the normal string sets of the day. Typically, .012 to fifty something, flat wound with a plain G. (Hence, the rod magnet pole length "stagger" of the Fifties pickups.) 

The vibrato springs were intended to balance with the string tension load of what we now call Medium gauge.

Ernie Ball custom gauge strings were introduced in 1962. Before then, to create a lighter set, guitarists shifted every string across by one and added a plain banjo string for high E. 

With five springs fitted, the "claw" does not need adjusting anywhere like as far towards the far end of the spring cavity.

IMO, Jeff Baxter advocated a Stratocaster with a stiff set up to encourage tasteful/musical application of wobble and discourage stunt techniques. (Just a hypothesis, folks.) 

guitars4you

"I'm a big fan of the stratocaster because it's got a lot of play. There are probably going to be people that won't like me for saying this, but use all 5 springs, please. Leo did that for a reason. If you haven't done it, do it. And if you have done it, you're already there. I think it's an excellent system."

A lot of crap - When Leo invented the Strat he never intended for it to be played the way it is today, often with lighter strings - As such set it up for you and your own style - SRV, Hank, Jimi, Beck and Eric for starters employ a totally different set up and I don't see any of these as wrong 

BigPaulie

Funkfingers said:

Ernie Ball custom gauge strings were introduced in 1962. Before then, to create a lighter set, guitarists shifted every string across by one and added a plain banjo string for high E. 

Banjo string! 

merlin

BigPaulie said:

Funkfingers said:

Ernie Ball custom gauge strings were introduced in 1962. Before then, to create a lighter set, guitarists shifted every string across by one and added a plain banjo string for high E. 

Banjo string! 

Yup, for a banjo string you need to use springs made of meteor trails and stardust.

Balance it up with strings, claw distance and as many/tenser/lighter springs as you need. Jeff "Bunk" Skaxter has a dogma because he likes to have an opinion. Some people do that. 

Believe in a God who sits on a cloud, has a massive beard and hates homosexuality. Makes as much sense. 

swiller

I think leo intended to allow versatility. Cue the debate, which way to config a 3 or 4 spring. 

TeleMaster

I'll do what I want thanks.  

maltingsaudio

I think, gentlemen, experimentation is the key, to find what works for you. Leo would have approved of this method, he gave you the tools to find your own way.

roberty

guitars4you said:

"I'm a big fan of the stratocaster because it's got a lot of play. There are probably going to be people that won't like me for saying this, but use all 5 springs, please. Leo did that for a reason. If you haven't done it, do it. And if you have done it, you're already there. I think it's an excellent system."

A lot of crap - When Leo invented the Strat he never intended for it to be played the way it is today, often with lighter strings - As such set it up for you and your own style - SRV, Hank, Jimi, Beck and Eric for starters empty a totally different set up and I don't see any of these as wrong 

Yeah exactly, the pickup poles were even staggered for a wound G. Silly billy

Wazmeister

Nah, 3 springs for me thank you waiter.

Dan

Raw vintage springs will let you have five springs and still wiggle like it has three normal springs. Dare I say sounds ‘better’ too. 

ZenOvertone

Dan said:

Raw vintage springs will let you have five springs and still wiggle like it has three normal springs. Dare I say sounds ‘better’ too. 

Same here, RV springs have lower tension

grappagreen

What a load of twaddle.. 

Lewy

ZenOvertone said:

Dan said:

Raw vintage springs will let you have five springs and still wiggle like it has three normal springs. Dare I say sounds ‘better’ too. 

Same here, RV springs have lower tension

So...what's the point? Fewer stronger springs, more weaker springs...doesn't it all just add up to tension which is either the amount you want or isn't, and is adjustable via the claw anyway?

Or are we saying that once the tension is set so that the balance is where you want it, the number or type of springs affects the feel of moving the bridge from that point?

Sassafras

The extra springs add weight to the guitar, consequently, sustain is vastly improved.
I've been adding springs to all my guitars, even the non-trem ones and they all sustain for days.

axisus

Why would I care what Skunk or Leo do? 

My preference is 2 springs, although in a moment of sheer madness I went to 3 a while back and barely noticed the difference. It's been traumatic ....