Tuning - A Comment on Today's That Pedal Show

monquixote

BillDL said:

It seems odd to me that I tune to a digital tuner and then (on most of my guitars) I immediately drop or raise the pitch of a couple of strings the tiniest bit by playing various chords and intervals and listening for unwanted dissonance.  I rarely like the sound of most of my guitars when tuned to bang on pitch with an electronic tuner and left like that.  Every guitar has its idiosyncrasies and every player frets notes and chords with varying degrees of pressure with the different fingers.

This just highlights that tuning is always a bit of a compromise.

The great example is unchained by Van Halen which has to have one of the strings sweetened or it sounds really wrong.

Danny1969

monquixote said:

BillDL said:

It seems odd to me that I tune to a digital tuner and then (on most of my guitars) I immediately drop or raise the pitch of a couple of strings the tiniest bit by playing various chords and intervals and listening for unwanted dissonance.  I rarely like the sound of most of my guitars when tuned to bang on pitch with an electronic tuner and left like that.  Every guitar has its idiosyncrasies and every player frets notes and chords with varying degrees of pressure with the different fingers.

This just highlights that tuning is always a bit of a compromise.

The great example is unchained by Van Halen which has to have one of the strings sweetened or it sounds really wrong.

That and Dance the night away, Running with the Devil, Panama. 
He was the master of distorted chords with great major thirds that didn't sound all dissonant against the root and 5th. 

Basically though even a tuned piano isn't in tune. You could tune a piano so it was in perfect tune in one key but it would sound terrible in any other key. The only instruments that are in tune are fretless ones where the player can keep to "Just" pitches by moving their fingers . Any fretted or keyed instrument uses equal temperament which is a little off but sounds reasonably ok in any key.  

In the studio we tuned the guitar to the main shape that was being used in the song. The open strings were just a starting point then the strings were sweetened in fretted position they were being held in. Sometimes splitting the recording of the guitar into different sections so the tuning could be resweetened to the different parts. 

One thing you don't hear much these days is the slight chorus effect you get when the band are in close to being in but ever so slightly out. It's one of the things that give more width to the sound I think. Nowadays everything is tuned to perfect 

sev112

What about a guitar that tunes itself automatically - that must be a great idea

Handsome_Chris

sev112 said:

What about a guitar that tunes itself automatically - that must be a great idea

If one were to buy a guitar that tunes automatically, then one should not buy guitars.

Rocker

If it is not important for your guitar/bass to be in tune, why then are tuning machines fitted on those instruments?  

In in my experience fitting an Earvana nut (available from Feline Guitars and others) helps a guitar to play more in tune than using a standard nut.  It took me a few days to get used to the guitar sound after fitting the Earvana nut, my ear needed tuning!

Not all guitars need an Earvana nut, my CS Strat plays perfectly in tune with the standard nut.

Note: plays in tune.  The open strings need to be tuned properly and the intonation set accurately before everything else falls into place.

BillDL

Sporky said:

Isn't that what the Buzz Feiten system (and possibly the Earvana nut) emulates?

I've heard of the Buzz Feiten system but never looked it up.  I just assumed it was the technology used by Scholl in some fancy expensive insoles with vibrating magnets to help with bunions and cure liver complaints.  As for Earvana, I prefer the Weird Al Jankovic version of their song.

robinbowes

Buzz Feiten - to intuneity, and beyond!

roberty

BillDL said:

It seems odd to me that I tune to a digital tuner and then (on most of my guitars) I immediately drop or raise the pitch of a couple of strings the tiniest bit by playing various chords and intervals and listening for unwanted dissonance.  I rarely like the sound of most of my guitars when tuned to bang on pitch with an electronic tuner and left like that.  Every guitar has its idiosyncrasies and every player frets notes and chords with varying degrees of pressure with the different fingers.

Yeh I always check and adjust by ear after tuning with a tuner if I can (ie not at gigs)

roberty

Rocker said:

If it is not important for your guitar/bass to be in tune, why then are tuning machines fitted on those instruments?  

In in my experience fitting an Earvana nut (available from Feline Guitars and others) helps a guitar to play more in tune than using a standard nut.  It took me a few days to get used to the guitar sound after fitting the Earvana nut, my ear needed tuning!

Not all guitars need an Earvana nut, my CS Strat plays perfectly in tune with the standard nut.

Note: plays in tune.  The open strings need to be tuned properly and the intonation set accurately before everything else falls into place.

I tried one and didn't like it. The guitar was more in tune, and I checked this on every fret with a tuner, but something felt off. Maybe I'm used to the sound of an uncompensated guitar, or maybe I instinctively compensate with my hands. Either way I've never had a problem with the way guitars sound, and it sounded odd to me, so off it came

tone1

sev112 said:

What about a guitar that tunes itself automatically - that must be a great idea

I think that’s been known to be punishable with a permaban in most cases….

Rocker

That is a pity @Roberty as an Earvana nut, when your ear gets used to the changes it brings, makes your guitar sound better, fits in better with a singer and a bass. 

You ought to consider refitting it and give it a longer trial period. 

roberty

@Rocker I left the earvana nut in the case pocket and it's cut to the right size so it would be easy enough to try again. Maybe next string change. It was just very odd. I had to consciously change the way I play

carlos

I love when I'm playing with other people and I know I'm in tune because the machine said so, while the "don't worry, I'm tuning by ear" bloke takes 5 minutes to do it, and then is so out of it, he might as well be in A=18313

monquixote

I think a lot of people are missing the point.

You should usually tune with a pedal, but you should also be able to tune without one.

robinbowes

monquixote said:

I think a lot of people are missing the point.

You should usually tune with a pedal, but you should also be able to tune without one.

What? People on an internet forum MISSING THE POINT? No way!!

Crazed_Fandango

The only point was that I've never learned as I've never had the need.

breezytele

I’m puzzled by people who comment on YouTube videos, telling the poster to tune his guitar, not least because the videos often sound just fine as they are

Danny1969

What would one do though, if handed a guitar at a party and asked to play something is it was out of tune and no tuner was present ? 

roberty

Danny1969 said:

What would one do though, if handed a guitar at a party and asked to play something is it was out of tune and no tuner was present ? 

There's an app for that

Danny1969

roberty said:

Danny1969 said:

What would one do though, if handed a guitar at a party and asked to play something is it was out of tune and no tuner was present ? 

There's an app for that

Lol, actually yes there is and I have 2 on my phone ... showing my age I think.