Tuning - A Comment on Today's That Pedal Show

tone1

I can’t tune by ear….but when I tune to standard 440 my ear just doesn’t like it much…if I tune a few cents sharper it’s much more pleasing? 

prowla

So, do you get the audience to all shut up so you can hear to tune your instrument?

I can tune by ear, but a using a tuner makes it a heck of a lot easier.

Similarly, I can walk to the supermarket, but having a car makes it a heck of a lot easier to bring the shopping home.

digitalkettle

viz said:

...

The better way is to tune the G correctly, then tune every other string to that G, by fretting:

3rd fret on the top E
8th fret on the B
Open G
5th fret on the D
10th fret on the A
Bottom E matches top E

Compare each sound to the open G string as you go. OK, the resonance between consecutive open strings will exhibit some slow beats (2-4 per second), but your guitar is now as much in tune as a piano is. 

I've been doing something similar for years...I think I read an article by luthier Kevin Ryan:

• get the D in tune
• G: D string 12th harmonic to G string 7th fret
• B: D string 12th harmonic to B string 3rd fret
• E: G string 12th harmonic to E string 3rd fret
• A: A string 12th harmonic to G string 2nd fret
• E: E string 12th harmonic to D string 2nd fret

Has the advantage of letting the harmonics ring for easier comparison with fretted notes. Quickly becomes second nature and is reinforced by testing octaves and fifths in a handful of places.

digitalkettle

prowla said:

So, do you get the audience to all shut up so you can hear to tune your instrument?

At a gig, I invoke the 'close enough for rock and roll' clause

darthed1981

This is all very advanced stuff, especially the gatekeeping.

I personally agree the things I can do are ESSENTIAL, unlike the things I can't do which are POINTLESS, and anyone who disagrees can fuck themselves with a rusty balloon whisk.

Doesn't anyone else just play a G chord go "ooof, that sounds shit" and then tune their guitar?

BillDL

Yes, but I'm only saying that because I don't fancy the alternative with the whisk 

flying_pie

stratman3142 said:

blobb said:

Good bit of advice I was given when starting out: Learn to tune to a record. I still do it now, it's an ear training thing mainly, not all records are 'in tune'.

I can understand an old recording not being at concert when it was the only way to adjust the speed as well. But these days it seems inexcusable - Human by Rag N Bone Man being a case in point.

These days some records aren't at concert pitch, but that's down to the producer deciding it works better at a slightly different tempo than recorded and tweaking the playback speed.

viz

flying_pie said:

stratman3142 said:

blobb said:

Good bit of advice I was given when starting out: Learn to tune to a record. I still do it now, it's an ear training thing mainly, not all records are 'in tune'.

I can understand an old recording not being at concert when it was the only way to adjust the speed as well. But these days it seems inexcusable - Human by Rag N Bone Man being a case in point.

These days some records aren't at concert pitch, but that's down to the producer deciding it works better at a slightly different tempo than recorded and tweaking the playback speed.

That’s inexcusable in my view - pitch and tempo are the artist’s choice! - but anyway nowadays surely they can alter the tempo without changing the pitch?

darthed1981

viz said:

flying_pie said:

stratman3142 said:

blobb said:

Good bit of advice I was given when starting out: Learn to tune to a record. I still do it now, it's an ear training thing mainly, not all records are 'in tune'.

I can understand an old recording not being at concert when it was the only way to adjust the speed as well. But these days it seems inexcusable - Human by Rag N Bone Man being a case in point.

These days some records aren't at concert pitch, but that's down to the producer deciding it works better at a slightly different tempo than recorded and tweaking the playback speed.

That’s inexcusable in my view - pitch and tempo are the artist’s choice! - but anyway nowadays surely they can alter the tempo without changing the pitch?

I would assume Rag N Bone man had final say over his own mix - lets not make silly assumptions here.

viz

darthed1981 said:

viz said:

flying_pie said:

stratman3142 said:

blobb said:

Good bit of advice I was given when starting out: Learn to tune to a record. I still do it now, it's an ear training thing mainly, not all records are 'in tune'.

I can understand an old recording not being at concert when it was the only way to adjust the speed as well. But these days it seems inexcusable - Human by Rag N Bone Man being a case in point.

These days some records aren't at concert pitch, but that's down to the producer deciding it works better at a slightly different tempo than recorded and tweaking the playback speed.

That’s inexcusable in my view - pitch and tempo are the artist’s choice! - but anyway nowadays surely they can alter the tempo without changing the pitch?

I would assume Rag N Bone man had final say over his own mix - lets not make silly assumptions here.

Ok thanks!!

TeleMaster

Nonsense. There are people here who can tune by ear sure, but are they better musicians than everyone who can't? I doubt it. It's not hard to be relatively in tune with your other strings but if you're playing in a band you'll really need a tuner to get to 440hz, I doubt many can perfectly hit it without one. 

carlos

TeleMaster said:

Nonsense. There are people here who can tune by ear sure, but are they better musicians than everyone who can't? I doubt it. It's not hard to be relatively in tune with your other strings but if you're playing in a band you'll really need a tuner to get to 440hz, I doubt many can perfectly hit it without one. 

The worst are the ones who think they can, but aren't, and then won't be convinced they aren't either.

rze99

I use Polytune clip on as you can use it without your rig backstage or whatever and did away with the bulky pedal no regrets

stickyfiddle

I"m 100% sure I've seen Kurt tune by ear during live shows. But exactly-perfect tuning isn't that important for grunge she the entire vibe is “not giving a shit” 

And I don’t think every single guitarist who can tune by ear is better than everyone who can’t. But I also don’t believe you can be a great musician while not being able to tell when your instrument is out of tune, let alone if you can’t tune it yourself. 

DefaultM

Played a gig the other day, came on for second set and the other guitarist was way out of tune. 6 songs passed with me thinking he’d realise. My teeth were itching it was so bad. We had a small break for him to pick up his acoustic and I rushed over and said you need to tune your electric before you use it again and he just said ah yeah I know. I genuinely don’t understand how he could bare it.

GuyBoden

Intonation is always a compromise on standard guitars, it can never be intune at every fret.

https://www.truetemperament.com/products/necks/

GuyBoden

There is always "Just Intonation" if you want to be really "in tune", instead of using the popular equal temperament, which just divides the octave into 12 equal parts.

"In music, just intonation or pure intonation is the tuning of musical intervals as whole number ratios (such as 3:2 or 4:3) of frequencies. An interval tuned in this way is said to be pure, and is called a just interval."

Stuckfast

But if you use just intonation, your guitar will only be in tune in one key...

GuyBoden

Stuckfast said:

But if you use just intonation, your guitar will only be in tune in one key...

 

viz

It’ll be pretty good in the 4th and 5th keys - especially the 5th because only the dim 5 of that will be out. So if you tune to Just E, then B major will be fine. 

But yes.