The F1 thread

sweepy

The best gossip today was Renault replacing Ricciardo with Alonso after Hungaroring as reported in one Spanish newspaper 

stickyfiddle

That Force India looks really quick. Vettel currently sitting 4th in fp2 so all may not be lost, but obviously no one is giving it full beans yet.

Fretwired

stickyfiddle said:

That Force India looks really quick. Vettel currently sitting 4th in fp2 so all may not be lost, but obviously no one is giving it full beans yet.

Racing Point ... :-)

I'm not sure Ferrari are sandbagging. Vettel is ahead of his team mate and looks relaxed. Red Bull claim they have more performance to come - they are far slower than the Mercs in the fast corners. Ferrari are quite close to the Mercs in the fast corners but not so hot on the slow ones.

Mercedes seem to well-ahead of the rest. The mid table racing could be epic with teams being so close. And good to see Williams back - they are now close to the mid-field teams.

Cols

Half a second ahead is tons on a track like Spielberg, which is a short lap on a track which only has a handful of corners.

Especially when the next car down the track after Hamilton and Bottas is last year’s Mercedes.

Fretwired

Cols said:

Half a second ahead is tons on a track like Spielberg, which is a short lap on a track which only has a handful of corners.

Especially when the next car down the track after Hamilton and Bottas is last year’s Mercedes.

Good point .. wait until Silverstone and Hamilton will be lapping the back markers on lap 2 .. :-)

PC_Dave

Yay. What an exciting season this will turn out to be.....

chillidoggy

So, business as usual, then. It's shaping up to be yet another Yawnfest.

And I see FIA has allowed Merc to use their new steering system.

Cols

Don’t stress - I remember ‘98 when the McLarens turned up and were 2 seconds a lap quicker than anyone else.  The season turned out okay.

The boring bit is going to be the fact that in Merc and RB it’s very clear who’s wearing the big boy shoes.  There’s not going to be much in the way of intrateam rivalry there.  

The Ferrari team mate wars will be fascinating, but the car’s not quick and Binotto sounds like he’s already written the season off.

prowla

chillidoggy said:

So, business as usual, then. It's shaping up to be yet another Yawnfest.

And I see FIA has allowed Merc to use their new steering system.

The protest was a bit lame, TBH; claiming it's an aerodynamic effect.

chillidoggy

Cols said:

Don’t stress - I remember ‘98 when the McLarens turned up and were 2 seconds a lap quicker than anyone else.  The season turned out okay.

The boring bit is going to be the fact that in Merc and RB it’s very clear who’s wearing the big boy shoes.  There’s not going to be much in the way of intrateam rivalry there.  

The Ferrari team mate wars will be fascinating, but the car’s not quick and Binotto sounds like he’s already written the season off.

'98 was 22 years ago, though!

chillidoggy

prowla said:

chillidoggy said:

So, business as usual, then. It's shaping up to be yet another Yawnfest.

And I see FIA has allowed Merc to use their new steering system.

The protest was a bit lame, TBH; claiming it's an aerodynamic effect.

True, but it's been banned for next year. That's the bit that I'm puzzled about.

stickyfiddle

Banning it for next year is simply because if they don't then every team will have it an then they're all just spending money on it without anyone getting any net benefit. Similar to how they banned using part-helium or whatever to fill tyres a few years back. If everyone's doing it it's pointless

prowla

chillidoggy said:

prowla said:

chillidoggy said:

So, business as usual, then. It's shaping up to be yet another Yawnfest.

And I see FIA has allowed Merc to use their new steering system.

The protest was a bit lame, TBH; claiming it's an aerodynamic effect.

True, but it's been banned for next year. That's the bit that I'm puzzled about.

It's an aid, but within the rules.

The teams try and figure out loopholes in the rules to gain a competitive advantage.

The authorities have plugged that gap for next year.

There have been other cases of this: the 6-wheeler, the Brawn diffuser.

markr76

stickyfiddle said:

Banning it for next year is simply because if they don't then every team will have it an then they're all just spending money on it without anyone getting any net benefit. Similar to how they banned using part-helium or whatever to fill tyres a few years back. If everyone's doing it it's pointless

The tyres are filled with a dry nitrogen mix. The main reason is it’s more stable to temperature changes than a normal air mix and not affected by moisture content. So going from different climates you get more predictable results. Also with the temperature, the tyres are heated to about 100c. The nitrogen mix is less reactive than standard air. 

If helium was ever used, I guess it would make the cars lighter!!

Fretwired

Russell is 16th in FP3 .. not at the back .. Perez is 4th ahead of both Ferraris ... :-)

Hamilton way out front though ....

stickyfiddle

markr76 said:

stickyfiddle said:

Banning it for next year is simply because if they don't then every team will have it an then they're all just spending money on it without anyone getting any net benefit. Similar to how they banned using part-helium or whatever to fill tyres a few years back. If everyone's doing it it's pointless

The tyres are filled with a dry nitrogen mix. The main reason is it’s more stable to temperature changes than a normal air mix and not affected by moisture content. So going from different climates you get more predictable results. Also with the temperature, the tyres are heated to about 100c. The nitrogen mix is less reactive than standard air. 

If helium was ever used, I guess it would make the cars lighter!!

Yeah, I couldn't remember the exact details, but I'm sure there was something. Were they even using a different gas for wheel guns at one point before that got the kibosh. 

Great to see Russell doing his thing - splitting the Haas and beating both Alfas. He looks every inch the real deal and it looks like Williams have built him a much better car than last year. 

The midfield looks very close. RP at the front, but Mclaren, Renault and AT all looking very close behind so far. You can see Perez getting a few podiums if they keep it up this year, but I would guess the Mclaren boys will be ahead of Stroll more often than not. 

markr76

prowla said:

chillidoggy said:

prowla said:

chillidoggy said:

So, business as usual, then. It's shaping up to be yet another Yawnfest.

And I see FIA has allowed Merc to use their new steering system.

The protest was a bit lame, TBH; claiming it's an aerodynamic effect.

True, but it's been banned for next year. That's the bit that I'm puzzled about.

It's an aid, but within the rules.

The teams try and figure out loopholes in the rules to gain a competitive advantage.

The authorities have plugged that gap for next year.

There have been other cases of this: the 6-wheeler, the Brawn diffuser.

Actually the “Brawn diffuser “ or twin diffuser did add lap time, but not as much as everyone thought. That whole car was just very sorted. By the end of the season though, the Redbull was a far superior car to ours. 

The twin diffuser was also on the Williams and the Toyota if I remember correctly. It was never as powerful a tool as the blown diffuser that Redbull ran. 

stickyfiddle

markr76 said:

 

Actually the “Brawn diffuser “ or twin diffuser did add lap time, but not as much as everyone thought. That whole car was just very sorted. By the end of the season though, the Redbull was a far superior car to ours. 

The twin diffuser was also on the Williams and the Toyota if I remember correctly. It was never as powerful a tool as the blown diffuser that Redbull ran. 

Interesting to get an insider's view on that. I alway assumed it was more that the whole car was designed through 2008 as Brawn convinced Honda to write off that season and develop a really great package for the new regs as early as possible. That obviously included the diffuser but as you say the other DD cars weren't as quick so it wasn't a single miracle solution in isolation. And then of course the same folks (i.e. Mercedes, still led by Brawn at that point) did a very similar super-early development program with the hybrid regs when they were announced. 

Obviously in Mercedes' case they still had the budget to develop through each season which is how they've been so consistently so damn good, while the Brawn car had almost nothing done all season but that early run was enough to get them the titles.

markr76

stickyfiddle said:

markr76 said:

 

Actually the “Brawn diffuser “ or twin diffuser did add lap time, but not as much as everyone thought. That whole car was just very sorted. By the end of the season though, the Redbull was a far superior car to ours. 

The twin diffuser was also on the Williams and the Toyota if I remember correctly. It was never as powerful a tool as the blown diffuser that Redbull ran. 

Interesting to get an insider's view on that. I alway assumed it was more that the whole car was designed through 2008 as Brawn convinced Honda to write off that season and develop a really great package for the new regs as early as possible. That obviously included the diffuser but as you say the other DD cars weren't as quick so it wasn't a single miracle solution in isolation. And then of course the same folks (i.e. Mercedes, still led by Brawn at that point) did a very similar super-early development program with the hybrid regs when they were announced. 

Obviously in Mercedes' case they still had the budget to develop through each season which is how they've been so consistently so damn good, while the Brawn car had almost nothing done all season but that early run was enough to get them the titles.

Exactly. F1 teams always put a lot of effort into the new regs when they come as you can really exploit things. 

The Brawn year was a very hard year. The day when they made all the redundancies was the Monday after the Australian gp. Which we’d just come 1st and 2nd in. Those of us left felt a massive feeling of guilt for our lost colleagues so to speak. Then we had to get used to working with less staff, the the design team stayed roughly the same size! They just carried on working as normal without a care that the production staff were cut so drastically l. We went from about 900-950 staff to just over 500. Pretty much all from the production side. 

If that year had the Honda engine I’m not sure we’d have won. Although we’d have had the money to develop the car all season and I know Honda we’re developing a new engine. 

So maybe had Honda won that 2009 season I always wonder how that would have changed the statistics today!

markr76

When Mercedes bought us. There was actually moans around the room. As we didn’t want another manufacturer involved. We were still sore from what happened with Honda, which was a massive shock when it happened. 

The romantic in me and a lot of the others there wanted Brawn Gp to stick around. Become the new Williams etc. 

Mercedes kind of approached f1 very half heartedly at first. With f1 you either do it or not bother!
thats why I’m always so shocked when teams like Hispania and manor turn up. It always feel like they haven’t done their homework properly! 

Which is why the expenditure needs sorting really.