The F1 thread

Dontgiveupyourdayjob

Ah shit, what a sickener for Leclerc ! Shame, as it was shaping up to be really interesting fight between him and the RB's. 

stickyfiddle

Ahh.. beans

YellowLedBetterMan

These Ferrari powered cars are crap

Kilgore

Did anyone see Hamilton trying to get out of the car? Voltarol should have advertising all over that Merc. 

euan

Aye his comment about his seat feeling cold could have only meant he went numb from the vibration. Apparently they were trying an extreme setup with him and it didn't really work

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8B61k_YsSk

skullfunkerry

euan said:

Aye his comment about his seat feeling cold could have only meant he went numb from the vibration. Apparently they were trying an extreme setup with him and it didn't really work

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8B61k_YsSk

He even sounded in pain in that radio message

EDIT: I didn't watch the after race stuff, but according to planet-f1, Toto said that Lewis might not be able to race in Canada next week... there is of course the chance that he's just grandstanding to force the FIA's hand. More drivers are talking about it now, and during the race Karun Chandhok said that the Merc is hitting the floor at 6G. That's just a crazy amount of punishment for a spine to take, it's got to have lasting effects.

euan

The only driver who hasn't complained is Max I think.

There is definitely a degree of politicking going on, but at the same time the repeated impacts are unlike anything experienced before across multiple teams and something protective about it should be done

Cols

I don’t think Hamilton is grandstanding.

Russell was saying before the race that the drivers can barely keep the car in a straight line when the porpoising sets in, and everything is so blurred it’s difficult to see the braking zone.  

Ive always been of the opinion that F1 cars should be nasty, ill-tempered machines which are difficult to drive quickly and punish mistakes mercilessly.  The current crop, however, are causing long-term damage to the drivers during normal operation.

That aside... the race was dull as fuck.  Montreal’s usually a good ‘un though.

stickyfiddle

Sources on twitter were quoting that Alonso was the only driver who didn't want to sign up to requesting some sort of action on the porpoising, presumably because the Alpine isn't suffering very much and Alonso would never give away any sort of advantage like that.

thumpingrug

euan said:

Aye his comment about his seat feeling cold could have only meant he went numb from the vibration. Apparently they were trying an extreme setup with him and it didn't really work

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8B61k_YsSk

These are super fit guys and to see Lewis struggling that much and hear the other drivers all speaking about the hammering they are taking means this is something very nasty and with potential long-term effects on the body.  The FIA need to make some changes to reduce this, or they could face legal action in years to come.

chillidoggy

Flawless drives by the Red Bull duo, but I felt cheated by not having seen a battle at the sharp end. The worst Baku race I've seen, not even a decent shunt to bring a safety car out and liven up the proceedings.

Pre-race, Leclerc was definitely on for the win, in my view. But those Bulls were in a league of their own, and even if his engine hadn't failed, I still think he wouldn't have won.

Roll on Canada.

rlw

Have to admit that after watching 22 of the 24 Heures due Mans, this GP was a little bit dull.  Wondering how long it will be before Ferrari get any better though.

fretmeister

euan said:

The only driver who hasn't complained is Max I think.

There is definitely a degree of politicking going on, but at the same time the repeated impacts are unlike anything experienced before across multiple teams and something protective about it should be done

The rugby players were accused of politics / grandstanding when they first started complaining about concussion.

Turns out they were right.

As per the commentary yesterday, the impacts are hitting 6G and they are happening hundreds of times in a race. Lets say a 50 lap race. Main straight takes about 10 seconds. Impact of Once per second JUST on the main straight ignoring the rest of the track for ease of maths. That's 500 impacts just in the race. In Baku they were doing about 25 laps per practice session too. 3x25=75. That's another 750 impacts. Very rough total Baku weekend impacts = 1250 6G impacts over 3 days.

6G in itself is not a lot as a 1 off impact in a properly built car with the HANS device etc. But just bang your arm in 1 place 1250 times over a weekend and see how long it is before it looks like it's been hit with a hammer. Don't even have to do it hard. The repeats will do all the damage.

Then start it all again 4 days later. Then 2 weeks later. then 1 week later. then 3 weeks later. Then 2 weeks later....

Permanent damage will settle in far faster than you think is possible.

This needs to be properly researched before the drivers end up permanently injured and the FIA find themselves on the receiving end of a Class Action /  Group Litigation Order just like the NFL and the rugby governing bodies have been.

chillidoggy

Or Mercedes need to fix a problem of their own making?

fretmeister

chillidoggy said:

Or Mercedes need to fix a problem of their own making?

It's not just them though.

Most of the cares do it.

There's an easy rule change to prevent it: Active suspension.

Emiel

Of course there are politics involved. Hamilton said they might gain a second if they got rid of purpoising. 

Without fingerpointing, the question remains why some of the teams can't get rid of it, and what they think will be the solution. Active suspension? A minimum ride height? The former does not fit under the budget cap, a minimum ride height might lead to teams trying to figure out ways to get around it to gain performance.

That being said, the race was pretty lackluster. Unfortunately, Ferrari shot itself in the foot again. Four retirements in three different teams. If the woes continue like this, not only it will be an easy championship win for Verstappen, but Leclerc will even get beaten by Russell in the standings, especially when Mercedes finally get on top of their issues.

RiftAmps

chillidoggy said:

Or Mercedes need to fix a problem of their own making?

Exactly.

There already is a simple fix, which is to raise the car's ride height. Obviously, they don't want to do that because they lose performance. Some teams have found a workaround (Alpine and Aston Martin), and others have designed a car that has minimal porpoising in the first place (Red Bull).

Mercedes have designed and built a car that porpoises excessively when run at their preferred ride height, that's no one else's fault but Mercs. It's up to them to fix it.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

On a separate note about ground effect aerodynamics and porpoising, I've heard calls to introduce active suspension to combat it. Yes, that would work BUT it is just a sticking plaster over the issue rather than a proper fix.

Formula 1 teams now have the perfect opportunity to show off their collective brain power and engineering excellence by finally forcing themselves to find the true fix to porpoising. It's been an unsolved problem for a long time and why should we throw this chance away?

stickyfiddle

fretmeister said:

chillidoggy said:

Or Mercedes need to fix a problem of their own making?

It's not just them though.

Most of the cares do it.

There's an easy rule change to prevent it: Active suspension.

Please put that in my veins. Even simple active that just controls an increase in total ride height above a specified Vmax would be enough to stop the worst of the porpoising, and then they can use that a proof-of-concept for a more intricate system to bring into the regs in a few years

chillidoggy

Good news for Hamster fans, following his performance trying to extricate himself from his car yesterday, Hamster has received some physio on his back, and changed his mind about not competing in Canada, saying he wouldn’t miss it for the world.

stickyfiddle

stickyfiddle said:

fretmeister said:

chillidoggy said:

Or Mercedes need to fix a problem of their own making?

It's not just them though.

Most of the cares do it.

There's an easy rule change to prevent it: Active suspension.

Please put that in my veins. Even simple active that just controls an increase in total ride height above a specified Vmax would be enough to stop the worst of the porpoising, and then they can use that a proof-of-concept for a more intricate system to bring into the regs in a few years

Thinking further on this, I'm not even sure the other teams would complain as they'd all be able to run the absolute lowest possible through the twistys, then raise it to stop the bouncing above 250km/h - there's no reason that wouldn't benefit everyone fairly equally, and certainly no way to know who would gain most from it other than I guess Ham & George simply because it means they might not risk slipping a disc every time they go flat out