Andertons/Victory

Petepassion

digitalscream said:

This is not a review <moved>

Thanks, I wasn't too sure where to put it...in the trash I hear you say

digitalscream said:

Also, this is yet another clear attempt by KDH to manufacture a (public) problem where there is none. To my knowledge, there's no legal requirement to publicly list shareholders in a company, and that's all Lee is - a shareholder. Not a director, and not with any actual role in the company.

Even if we're imagining that there is a requirement, it's only for PSCs - individuals with significant control, something Lee doesn't have.

Then, of course, there's his whole imagined "ethics in reviews" thing, which is what KDH is trying to get at with his "should you trust their reviews?" bit in the conclusion. Sadly for him, Andertons have never posted reviews on their channel - and they're very clear about the fact that they aren't posting reviews, because:

1 - They only showcase products they sell
2 - They'd be idiots to negatively review a product they sell
3 - Therefore they can never put up a negative review
4 - ...and so they always say that they demo products, they don't review them. This was mentioned often in the early days.

So...sure, you shouldn't trust any of their reviews. If you can find one.

What a fool. All he's done here is make public a private individual's financial affairs, which is almost never OK.

Whether you call it a showcase, review, demo or something else comes down to semantics.
But they are a retailer giving opinions and demo's on a public platform in order to sell their product...which they know will have an influence. Personally I think a little more transparency regarding Victory amps when they demo them can only be a good thing.
   But at the end of the day, either way, I'm not going to get my knickers in a twist about it, I just thought some people may want to know...and many actually do. If people know already or think KDH is a prat, no worries, move on.

Vintage-T

who cares??? Shop makes video to sell items in their shop.

Shop owner also invests in brands they stock, gets better prices and or preferential treatment. It's a total non story. LA has addressed it perfectly amicably in the video on his Insta page. 

Buy from them or don't. I have no idea why anyone would be getting massively upset about this though....

Sporky

Petepassion said:

Whether you call it a showcase, review, demo or something else comes down to semantics.

I think it's important. To be valuable, a review has to mention negatives (if they exist) - it has to be fair and balanced. A showcase or demo is there to illustrate the thing in its best light.

Both are useful as long as you know which is which. 

digitalscream

Petepassion said:
.

Whether you call it a showcase, review, demo or something else comes down to semantics.

It's not semantics, really - showcase/demo are essentially the same thing, but a review is a demo with recommendations; it's basically the difference between "here are the features" and "you should/shouldn't buy this". That's a hugely important distinction.

Petepassion said:

If people know already or think KDH is a prat, no worries, move on.

I'd have thought most people know there's a cooperative relationship between Andertons and Victory anyway (whether they know about Lee Anderton's private affairs is entirely different), and I would hope most people hold that opinion of KDH's output

Honestly, anybody who thinks Lee Anderton's up to something shady here - as KDH tries to imply - has never met the guy.

Sporky

Sprocket once gave Lee's nether regions a darned good sniffing on the common near my old house.

Lee took it well. I'm not sure he enjoyed it, but he took it like a trooper. I think that speaks well of him. 

roberty

monquixote said:

Wait till you see his sensational exposé of the links between Thomann and Harley Benton.

Harley Benton isn't even a real person. They wanted something American sounding

Wouldn't look out of place on this list tbh

flying_pie

I wasn't fully aware of The Captain holding shares part when I bought my Kraken. Doesn't change anything for me.

I'm not surprised to hear there's a connection.  I imagine that there won't be a colossal amount of people investing in ambitious music brand start ups in the UK. And his Instagram response shows he's very switched on.

I'm now wondering if KDH is a shareholder in Anderson's and has set this up to boost the profile. Can someone investigate that? 

Sporky

Bobson Dugnutt is my new stripper name. 

BillDL

I saw the video, watched a bit of it until I reached the point where he didn't seem to grasp that GAP is a buying consortium, so Landlord FX and East Coast guitars are effectively "own brand" made by an OEM that's probably making budget guitars for dozens of other retailers and companies.  There was a passing inference of "something sinister there", but he apparently never bothered to check whether any companies other than the 3 retailers in the GAP buying group actually sold those brands.

As @digitalcream says, Andertons YouTube videos are a "showcase" for the brands they sell and simply advertising for their retail business.  Even the head-to-head play-offs aren't really reviews, and even if they were Lee is never the only one playing or playing through the musical equipment being featured.  There have always been others that, I would assume, aren't shareholders in the products in the room playing them.  It isn't as though Victory amps are only sold through Andertons either.  There are plenty other authorised dealerships selling and showcasing Victory amps along with their other brands.

The subject of KDH's next video has apparently already been under investigation by him for a long time but is nearing fruition.  He gave up on the "Sainsbury owns Argos", "Victor Kiam owned Remington", "Zuber and Mohsin Issa own Asda and lots of petrol stations, but Asda petrol is cheaper", and "Levi Roots isn't Hebrew - his real name is Keith Valentine Graham" investigations after they were leaked, but is going ahead with "The same factory that packages fresh herbs and salad products for Waitrose puts different stickers on exactly the same packages for Lidl, but Lidl's are much cheaper".  A shocking sinister lack of transparency, apart from the packaging of course.  Anybody can see through that.

roberty

Sporky said:

Bobson Dugnutt is my new stripper name. 

Dog nuts?

thecolourbox

Business man in music business invests in a business in the music business. How very shocking. I paid £20 to a local GoFundMe campaign for a new live venue opening up near me, doe that make me a co-owner? Do I need to declare this on every public music thing I do?

Gassage

I don't actually have that much time for Lee (not because of this, but more so to buying practices/cartel stuff - loose term there, plus the fact he's a knob and I find his videos utterly cringeworthy), but even I knew he was part of Victory setup and I have NEVER even considered buying one or looking at one.

I also think he's a hell of a shrewd businessman to keep going when others have failed so regularly.

I have shares in a number of companies, one such is class A shares of a biz I helped found, but it doesn't mean to say I'm an active partner nor that I really own them.

KDH needs to go on a basic business course.

Never have so many words been committed on Youtube to such a non-event!

Power_Freak

digitalscream said:

 I'd have thought most people know there's a cooperative relationship between Andertons and Victory anyway (whether they know about Lee Anderton's private affairs is entirely different), and I would hope most people hold that opinion of KDH's output

Honestly, anybody who thinks Lee Anderton's up to something shady here - as KDH tries to imply - has never met the guy.

I'm hardly a target consumer for Victory - but I had no idea there was any relation between Victory and Andertons.

As I said before, I'm significantly more switched on than the "average" consumer (which is the important yardstick - you can't use a bunch of forum dwellers to represent the "average" consumer here, we're a subsample of nerds). It's the "average" consumer that needs to be considered in these sorts of things, and by how this has blown up it's pretty clear it wasn't "obvious" that there was a relationship there.

It's also important to separate the 3 entities (on the Anderton's side):
- Anderton's the store
- Lee Anderton the private citizen
- Lee Anderton the influencer

The first 2 can really do what they like in terms of relationship with Victory - stores have relations with brands whether directly/indirectly (if you're buying a sizeable amount of stock from a brand you get at least some influence on their direction), and nobody can tell a private citizen who they can/can't invest money into and there's no requirement to discuss personal investment matters.

The sticky point is the 3rd one - like it or not Anderton's YouTube channel is more than an "advertisement for the store" these days, it is a social media entity in its own right independent of the store (e.g. imagine they renamed the channel "captain and the gang" or something tomorrow - they'd still get the same viewership despite not being related to a store). This is why there's a bit of a backlash around this, it's not Lee the person or Anderton's the store, it's the social media presence - and TBF to them, Victory probably started back when their channel didn't have the clout it has now and was probably less of an issue. In hindsight now it comes across worse.

Petepassion

digitalscream said:

Petepassion said:
.

Whether you call it a showcase, review, demo or something else comes down to semantics.

It's not semantics, really - showcase/demo are essentially the same thing, but a review is a demo with recommendations; it's basically the difference between "here are the features" and "you should/shouldn't buy this". That's a hugely important distinction.

Petepassion said:

If people know already or think KDH is a prat, no worries, move on.

I'd have thought most people know there's a cooperative relationship between Andertons and Victory anyway (whether they know about Lee Anderton's private affairs is entirely different), and I would hope most people hold that opinion of KDH's output

Honestly, anybody who thinks Lee Anderton's up to something shady here - as KDH tries to imply - has never met the guy.

Fair enough, let's call it a showcase or demo, the end result is the same. I think we can agree these showcases will have a positive effect on sales, especially if they show a particular amp in a positive light. So when showcasing three different amps just be open about the affiliations with certain brands. I, for one would like to know when watching someone showcasing three different brands, if they had an affiliation with one particular brand...surely that makes common sense as a consumer?

Regarding KDH, I've never heard of him until today, so no real opinion one way or the other yet.

TheBigDipper

I didn't know that Lee Anderton had shares in Victory. It doesn't matter to me. The Andertons TV channel is not an independent reviewer of guitar-related gear giving unbiased consumer advice. They're generating demand for products that they sell. They'll not give anything they sell a bad review because that affects sales. Does anyone watch their vids and actually fail to understand Lee runs Andertons and they want to sell the products they are promoting in the vids? 

DuploLicks

I heard KDH got a job in a premier Dublin restaurant when they found out he was a top YouTube pot-stirrer

springhead

I couldn’t care less about affiliations. He owns a shop and they’re selling stuff. Could be any other number of reasons why he’d want to showcase and hence promote and sell a particular brand or model. Overstocked, looking to drop that brand, model getting old and will be replaced. Affiliations are way down the list for me. 

fretmeister

Successful business owner makes successful investment into a company shocker!

KDH is a pillock. And he got his arse handed to him by Barefaced when KDH decided to post a completely wrong video about speaker cabs.

That's the difference between a mad inventor / actually qualified engineer and a gobshite. 

darthed1981

roberty said:

Harley Benton isn't even a real person. They wanted something American sounding...

Not true.

Harley was a man's man, who wanted to make guitars that could easily with mods be the equal of the Gibson custom shop, but also with eleven herbs and spices.

So after winning a wrestling match with Mark Agnesi, and leaving him crying on the mat, writing "play authentic" in his own blood, Harley met German entrepreneur Thomann.

They travelled to the Far East and set up a factory, to sell the finest and coincidentally cheapest instruments through Thomanns huge German music store.

Harley therefore joined such greats as Squire Squier, Fred Eastcoast and Vinny Tage as a legend with his name on headstocks.

Petepassion

Maybe it’s just me, I’m not a fan of the idea of chasing and maximising profits, but at the end of the day that’s the bulk of modern day business. 

   As an example, I own a small business myself, a motor vehicle service and repair workshop. Often we get asked if there is a body shop we can recommend, and for the past few years we have always recommended the same one. We ask the customer to tell the body shop we have sent them. Now normally if the body shop gets the job the business that put the work their way gets a commission which generally the customer will not be told about.
   However, we ask the customer to report back to us if they should get the work done and make sure they are happy. The body shop knows that if we start getting bad reports then we will stop recommending them…and we tell the customer this. We never take a commission, it’s been offered in the past, but the problem is all too often money fucks with peoples ethics and I want no part of that.
   I could expand, I could make more profit, but I’d rather maintain my integrity, as this is how I would want to be treated by other businesses. Im happy to just earn a living and very lucky to own a nice guitar and amp.