Those new speed cameras

BillDL

Nope, they are enforced on all vehicles.  They go through the same process of sending a letter that requires details of who was driving the vehicle at the material time, and often those letters aren't attended to as quickly as a private individual would respond, but ultimately a driver is held to account.  I have wondered the same thing also.

Gassage

Get Waze. 

It's very very accurate in terms of camera placements.

p90fool

Teyeplayer said:

What I always find strange about average speed cameras, is the lorries pounding through on the second lane who seem completely oblivious or impervious to the reduced limit. Maybe said limits are not enforced on hauliers, though that seems utterly ridiculous und unlikely.

That's always baffled me too. We have a sawmill about a mile from our village and artics full of tree trunks hurtle past my window at over 50 mph.

That's 40 tonnes, going down a steepish hill in a 20mph limit into a blind bend with shops and a school, and they do it with impunity all day. 

Roland

Lorry drivers usually know where the cameras are, and what they can get away with.

m_c

Lorry tachometers are calibrated, so give a speedo reading far more accurate than your typical car.
If a car speedo is showing 50mph, it's probably only doing 45-47mph.

m_c

p90fool said:

Teyeplayer said:

What I always find strange about average speed cameras, is the lorries pounding through on the second lane who seem completely oblivious or impervious to the reduced limit. Maybe said limits are not enforced on hauliers, though that seems utterly ridiculous und unlikely.

That's always baffled me too. We have a sawmill about a mile from our village and artics full of tree trunks hurtle past my window at over 50 mph.

That's 40 tonnes, going down a steepish hill in a 20mph limit into a blind bend with shops and a school, and they do it with impunity all day. 

Your typical timber lorry driver isn't known for going slow!

Neilybob

Gassage said:

Get Waze. 

It's very very accurate in terms of camera placements.

Do this!

darthed1981

The thing people miss is that as speeding is an absolute offense (70 is fine, 71 a crime) enforcement is supposed to be pragmatic and proportional.

As a result, when you take account of speedo over-read and the likely 10% minimum that the cameras are set up to allow you to speed without enforcement (though there is no legal requirement to do this, a police officer can nick you for 31 in a 30 if they feel it is appropriate) you usually have to be properly speeding to get nicked.

e.g. If the camera allows a 10% + 2mph allowance, plus your over-reading speedo of say 3mph, then your speedo in car would be saying 38mph before you get nicked in a 30.  Allow for a bit of reduction when you see the speed trap and slow down, and most people nicked in a 30 (most not ALL) were happily driving around at 40mph from their POV.

For balance, I've seen some very unfair speed traps - in one village near me, a van parked up right next to the national speed limit sign, so people casually accelerating as they pass the sign could easily be nicked, after going long past the nearby school that is the reason for the speed trap - YMMV though.

Another vote for downloading Waze BTW - very fine app and you can use it's speedo function to help avoid speeding.

A side note - newer speedos are very accurate, Waze typically reports about 0.5 to 1 mph slower than my car's speedo at all speeds!

springhead

darthed1981 said:

The thing people miss is that as speeding is an absolute offense (70 is fine, 71 a crime) enforcement is supposed to be pragmatic and proportional.

As a result, when you take account of speedo over-read and the likely 10% minimum that the cameras are set up to allow you to speed without enforcement (though there is no legal requirement to do this, a police officer can nick you for 31 in a 30 if they feel it is appropriate) you usually have to be properly speeding to get nicked.

e.g. If the camera allows a 10% + 2mph allowance, plus your over-reading speedo of say 3mph, then your speedo in car would be saying 38mph before you get nicked in a 30.  Allow for a bit of reduction when you see the speed trap and slow down, and most people nicked in a 30 (most not ALL) were happily driving around at 40mph from their POV.

For balance, I've seen some very unfair speed traps - in one village near me, a van parked up right next to the national speed limit sign, so people casually accelerating as they pass the sign could easily be nicked, after going long past the nearby school that is the reason for the speed trap - YMMV though.

Another vote for downloading Waze BTW - very fine app and you can use it's speedo function to help avoid speeding.

A side note - newer speedos are very accurate, Waze typically reports about 0.5 to 1 mph slower than my car's speedo at all speeds!

I’ve been caught twice and done the driver awareness course. They said 10%+2 is a myth, or at least if it ever was a thing it isn’t now. I was doing 36 in a 30 the first time and 34 the second time. Someone on the course was doing 32. 

BillDL

[EDIT: Part of the details below are erroneous, and have been corrected in a comment further down.  Regardless of this though, there WAS some leeway given to speeders in previous decades that isn't given nowadays]

Going back a number of years decades the Motor Vehicle (Construction and Use) Regulations stated that the speedometer of a motor vehicle must be within 10% accuracy either way of absolutely accurate calibration.  That was the reason people were not normally pulled over by traffic cops with radar speed detectors for going something like 75 or 77mph on the motorway, or 32 or 33mph in a 30mph zone.  It is also the reason that some of the snaps taken by camera speed traps were discarded and not pursued even though the camera flashed and captured the car.  It used to quite common for people to latch onto this concept [a "10% accuracy" fallacy] and plead not guilty to speeding in court, but it didn't work for the reason that if the smart-arse driver knew about the 10% accuracy aspect of speedometers he or she should have erred on the other side of safety and gone 63mph on the motorway or 27mph in the built up area.

Things changed.  Speedometers became a lot more accurate and so did speed detecting devices.

crosstownvamp

springhead said:

I’ve been caught twice and done the driver awareness course. They said 10%+2 is a myth, or at least if it ever was a thing it isn’t now. I was doing 36 in a 30 the first time and 34 the second time. Someone on the course was doing 32. 

Yep got done for 24 in a 20. Hidden trap setup - just after a humpback where you accelerate to get over it and pick up speed on the down slope.

Sporky

BillDL said:

Going back a number of years decades the Motor Vehicle (Construction and Use) Regulations stated that the speedometer of a motor vehicle must be within 10% accuracy either way of absolutely accurate calibration.  

I thought it was that they could not under-read, and must not over-read by more than 10%?

So you could never be going faster than the speedo says. 

BillDL

@Sporky I would have to go up into my loft and locate my old Road Traffic law book that is about 9 inches thick, and probably now 10" thick with the 32 years of accumulated dust, to verify this with absolute certainty.  It's possible you are correct.

DefaultM

crunchman said:

DefaultM said:

I get an average speed of 9mph driving round here on my usual journeys, but still people being dicks speeding when they get any stretch of road. You only catch up to them 15 seconds later I don't get what they think they're achieving.

Get a bike.  Easy to average more than 9 mph.

I’ve tried loads of times, I can’t do it at all I just fall over the last time the final straw was I stood on the pedal and it span round and hit me in the shin before I fell over.

BillDL

You are absolutely correct @Sporky - I will eat my hat and also that old traffic manual by way of apology for trusting my old rusty brain and assuming that the 1978 regulations remained unchanged with regard to speedometers.

Regulation 35 Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1986/1078/regulation/35/made

Every motor vehicle shall be fitted with a speedometer except:

- A vehicle having a maximum speed not exceeding 25 mph
- A vehicle which, at all times, is unlawful to drive at more than 25 mph  
- An agricultural motor vehicle driven at not more than 20 mph
- A motorcycle not exceeding 100cc first used before 1st April 1984,
- An invalid carriage first used before 1st April 1984,
- A works truck first used before 1st April 1984,
- Any vehicle first used before 1st October 1937,
- A vehicle fitted with an approved tachograph which is required or not

For vehicles first used on or after 1st April 1984 the speedometer should be capable of indicating the speed in miles per hour and kilometres per hour. Vehicles may instead comply with EC Regulation (Community Directive) 97/39 or ECE Reg 39.

These directives stipulate the markings, graduations of the speedometer and refer to 75/443/EEC which specifies the tolerances.

The indicated speed must never be less than the true speed (it must read exact or high) and between 40km/h and 120km/h, the error must not exceed 10% + 2.5 mph high (i.e. true speed/10 + 4km/h).

This means at a true speed of 25mph or 40km/h the speedometer may read 40/10+4 = 8km/h or 5mph high = 30mph indicated.

Sporky

No hat eating required on my account, though if its a particularly tasty hat you've been saving for the right moment, don't let me stop you.  

drofluf

@BillDL do you happen to know what a "works truck" is?

Sporky

The definition is here:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/works-trucks

Kittyfrisk

drofluf said:

@BillDL do you happen to know what a "works truck" is?

Enjoy 
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/works-trucks/work-trucks

BillDL

drofluf said:

@BillDL do you happen to know what a "works truck" is?

Definitions
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1986/1078/regulation/3

Works Truck:
A motor vehicle (other than a straddle carrier i.e. a motor vehicle constructed to straddle and lift its load for the purpose of transportation) designed for use in private premises and used on a road only in delivering goods from or to such premises to or from a vehicle on a road in the immediate neighbourhood, or in passing from one part of any such premises to another or to other private premises in the immediate neighbourhood or in connection with road works while at or in the immediate neighbourhood of the site of such works.

Works Trailer:
A trailer designed for use in private premises and used on a road only in delivering goods from or to such premises to or from a vehicle on a road in the immediate neighbourhood, or in passing from one part of any such premises to another or to other private premises in the immediate neighbourhood or in connection with road works while at or in the immediate neighbourhood of the site of such works.