Yamaha acoustics

fnpt

Yamaha seems to be offering several acoustics within the same price level, the FG and LL models, as well as as the transacoustics.

Does anyone have any experience with any of them? I’m considering the FGX3 but a bit confused with the LL alternatives.

Whitecat

The leading “L” in the L series stands for “Luxury”. They are made with slightly blingier appointments - the FG stuff is far more workmanlike. 

The L stuff is available in 3 body shapes - the one that the FGX has is not one of them - and 5 levels of trim - 6, 16 (both made in China) and 26, 36, and 56 (all fully made in a very small shop in Japan with various levels of ascending appointments). 

At the bottom (6) you’ve got laminate back and sides and simple aesthetics and at the very top (56) you have single luthier build quality with a metric tonne of abalone inlays. The price range is from about £400 to about £7000 at rrp (although 56s have been available new in this country as low as £3500 once upon a time). 

There have been rumours that Japanese L series production was winding down slowly but there still seems to be a steady trickle of models coming into this country so who knows what’s going on. Yamaha as always is famously opaque with corporate decisions…

That said there is nothing wrong with the MIC stuff - the 16 being an all-solid sweet spot. I picked up an LL16M earlier this year to go with my LL36 and have a mahogany option - while the 36 is clearly that much more special, the 16 is absolutely no slouch and hangs in there just fine. 

fnpt

Thanks so much for the detailed info. 

So basically the FG is a dreadnought model which I think will be the better option for strumming. 

Whitecat

fnpt said:

Thanks so much for the detailed info. 

So basically the FG is a dreadnought model which I think will be the better option for strumming. 

The LL models are also dreadnoughts - just a different shape - more like a sloped shoulder vs the FG’s square shoulder. None are exactly like their famous Gibson and Martin counterparts but that’s the best comparison I can make. If I were you I would at least listen to (but ideally try out) the FGX3 vs the LL16M. Both are solid mahogany B&S but the FG is a Sitka top and the LL Engelmann spruce - and of course the variation in body shape!

fnpt

Thanks, I will look for demos of both models.

BillDL

FG is their dreadnought style and size.  FS is their slightly smaller and narrower bodied "concert" type shape and size. They put an X in the model name to indicate that it's an electro-acoustic, and there is normally about a £100 to £120 price difference between the same models without and with electrics.  When you get to the LL and LS models, LL designates dreadnought style and LS designates "concert" style. Neither size/style is really "better" than the other for a particular style of playing, but a dreadnought is usually noticeably louder than a "concert" sized guitar, hence the notion that dreadnought is a better strummer and flatpicker and a "concert" style is a better fingerpicker.  They do have slightly different sounds due to the size of the soundboard and volume of air, but this is really something you can only assess by playing the different styles or watching a comparison video that has good quality audio.

gordiji

I bought an LL16D which is the posh version of the LL16 about a year ago.(solid spruce top & rosewood sides ,back) It says it's a jumbo but to me it's a dread.

It's beautiful in every way. Sometimes i just slowly ring out an open Emin and listen to the complexity and sustain. It's magical. It's 150€ more than last year. I'm not an acoustic player but can pick a bit after playing country on electric for years but do know a good guitar. My missus has my old FG. LL is miles better although FG is a 350€ er.

The neck is a good full not fat not thin. Check out the JP Cormier vids but having got mine i didn't appreciate the sound quality /complexity until i had it and more so kept going back to it confirm. 

Only negative is the bridge saddle was a bit tall and consequently the action a tad high.  Apparently that's how they come but it's a very easy fix even for non luthier types.

https://www.thomann.de/fr/yamaha_ll_16_d_are_nt.htm

fnpt

@gordiji the FG I’m looking at is the red label model, supposedly higher quality. It has the Yamaha  pickup system which seems to be a better sounding system than a normal piezo which could be useful for recording. 

fnpt

@gordiji did you sand down the saddle? Did it affect the contact with the piezo?

Smellyfingers

I had the LS6 which was great value, with electronics, for around £600.

Then I decided to trade it for the more expensive but plainer looking FG5 at around £1100.

 This a very complex but precise sounding acoustic with a great bass response, tbh I am not sure if Martin D18s at more than twice the price, sound any better. I

I did try the FG3 but found it a definite step below the FG5, tone wise. Possibly new it’s a bit above your budget, but because it’s a Yamaha, you might find some good used deals.

gordiji

fnpt said:

@gordiji did you sand down the saddle? Did it affect the contact with the piezo?

I did. No difference but i never use piezo !... but have read it makes no difference.

fnpt said:

@gordiji the FG I’m looking at is the red label model, supposedly higher quality. It has the Yamaha  pickup system which seems to be a better sounding system than a normal piezo which could be useful for recording. 

The Red labels are a 'different' categorie especially the 5 . I hummed and ha'd with this model as it was close in price to my LL16 at the time. It's mahogony back which will be the big difference but i seem to remember the neck's quite thin which put me off. I bought blind fww but it made it easier especially as stock was poor close to me at the time. No regrets.

thomasross20

I've tried a few and think Yamaha acoustics are pretty good

CountryDave

I’ve owned an LL16 and an LS6. Both were superb guitars.
Would happily own either as my main acoustic.

fnpt

Thank you all for your input. I'm seriously considering the LL16D.

fnpt

LL16D on it’s way to me now from Thomann.

Amigo

All the Yamaha acoustics I tried have V-shaped neck, so good to check if that works for you.

gordiji

Good thing with Thomann is they're excellent to deal with , returns striaght forward and if you have a problem beyond that their 3 year guarantee really is that . (i know through experience). HNGD

fnpt

Thanks

DavidR

Was going to recommend a trip to Yamaha London but then noticed you're in Portugal!

I have had several FG's over the years and I think of them as very sound student, but brilliantly workmanlike low-price square-shouldered dreadnoughts. They can vary quite a lot. Of the 2 I have at the moment, the FG830 is a pretty, very light instrument. Whilst the FG5 is a more serious, better quality and somewhat heavier guitar. Both are melodious and fun in separate ways.

This years FG9 has broken the 'cheap and excellent' FG mould. For the first time actually. Since the 1970's FGs have always been competitively price/low-end; but the FG9 is expensive. I keep meaning to try one out but haven't got around to it yet. It's up against some very, very serious opposition in todays market and I'm not sure how many they will sell.

The FS range are smaller versions (think OM'ish) of the same guitars which will all have very similar character and build quality but will be different tonally with a less boomy lower end.

I think the thing that has always impressed me about the FG's I have owned is that they are all comfortable to play and they have excellent mid-range. Lots of instruments at this lower price point will have a nice base and sparkly trebles but lack something in the middle. Also you can haul them about and not bother too much about them getting dinged. Bit like having a second car! Mostly they will need a simple set-up post sale but the same is true for lots of guitars.

I have never seen the point of the LL/LS range. Yamaha like to give the impression that they are a bit up market from the FG/FS. But they aren't really. More a variation on an excellent theme.

Personal views obviously.

Happy Hunting.

BigPaulie

Amigo said:

All the Yamaha acoustics I tried have V-shaped neck, so good to check if that works for you.

I've got an LL16 built in 2022. The new ones don't have a v neck.

They do have rather a handful of a neck, however; and a 44mm nut.

The LL body shape, although visually similar to a dread, is significantly bigger than the traditional Martin D shape. It's most noticeable when swapping immediately between the two guitars.

Either of these things may be a problem, or a good thing for you.

The neck shape is the only thing that occasionally makes me consider moving it on as I prefer slimmer necks and 43mm or 1 11/16" nuts. My favourite profile is the Martin modified low oval. The thing that stops me is knowing that I'll have to add significant £££ to any moneys received from selling the LL16 to get a rosewood dread that is built/sounds anywhere near as well/good.

fnpt

@DavidR I actually own a FG 720s from 2012 which played great out of the box, no adjustments needed and sounds quite decent (hence being my main acoustic for 11 years) for the price. From memory, it cost me €275(!).

But I find it lacks harmonic complexity, I particularly notice it when recording. Too trebly, not much bottom end. The LL is meant to be the keeper, the last acoustic guitar that I’ll buy and from the demos I’ve heard the sound is up there with much more expensive alternatives.

Also, I much prefer the look of the LL compared with the FG, finish and shape.

If it doesn’t work for me I can always send it back (although I hate doing that kind of thing, too much faff and not really fair for the seller as it then becomes b-stock). 

But I’m hopeful the LL will be it.