Yamaha acoustics

BigPaulie

fnpt said:

@DavidR I actually own a FG 720s from 2012 which played great out of the box, no adjustments needed and sounds quite decent (hence being my main acoustic for 11 years) for the price. From memory, it cost me €275(!).

But I find it lacks harmonic complexity, I particularly notice it when recording. Too trebly, not much bottom end. The LL is meant to be the keeper, the last acoustic guitar that I’ll buy and from the demos I’ve heard the sound is up there with much more expensive alternatives.

Also, I much prefer the look of the LL compared with the FG, finish and shape.

If it doesn’t work for me I can always send it back (although I hate doing that kind of thing, too much faff and not really fair for the seller as it then becomes b-stock). 

But I’m hopeful the LL will be it.

There's no shortage of harmonic richness with the LL16, but you may have to try a few sets of strings to get the balance you're looking for.

It is a very bright sounding guitar and the 80/20 strings it comes with are entirely the wrong choice imo.

Whitecat

BigPaulie said:

fnpt said:

@DavidR I actually own a FG 720s from 2012 which played great out of the box, no adjustments needed and sounds quite decent (hence being my main acoustic for 11 years) for the price. From memory, it cost me €275(!).

But I find it lacks harmonic complexity, I particularly notice it when recording. Too trebly, not much bottom end. The LL is meant to be the keeper, the last acoustic guitar that I’ll buy and from the demos I’ve heard the sound is up there with much more expensive alternatives.

Also, I much prefer the look of the LL compared with the FG, finish and shape.

If it doesn’t work for me I can always send it back (although I hate doing that kind of thing, too much faff and not really fair for the seller as it then becomes b-stock). 

But I’m hopeful the LL will be it.

There's no shortage of harmonic richness with the LL16, but you may have to try a few sets of strings to get the balance you're looking for.

It is a very bright sounding guitar and the 80/20 strings it comes with are entirely the wrong choice imo.

OMG YES. Hate the stock strings Yamaha L series stuff ship with. Also too cheap to want to change them *instantly*. So there’s a bit of pain while I break it in, knowing how much better it will be eventually!

willo

DavidR said:

I have had several FG's over the years

I'm confused though - the impression I got, based on pricing and online reviews, was that the newer FG/S 3 and 5 'red label' reissues were a step up from the made in China LL series? Executed simply but excellently, not 'low end'. Is that not right?

Basically, after two pages of explanations of Yamaha's naming conventions, I'm still confused!

Whitecat

willo said:

DavidR said:

I have had several FG's over the years

I'm confused though - the impression I got, based on pricing and online reviews, was that the newer FG/S 3 and 5 'red label' reissues were a step up from the made in China LL series? Executed simply but excellently, not 'low end'. Is that not right?

Basically, after two pages of explanations of Yamaha's naming conventions, I'm still confused!

The 3 is still made in China I believe. Not necessarily a step up, just a different formula. 

The 5 is assembled in Japan but the rumour mill is strong that at least some of the woodworking is still done in China and it’s shipped over for finishing.

I do wish they'd make the LL sloped-shoulder shape in the Red Label series with a Sitka top and mahogany B+S and the rosewood board. I have the LL16M which is an Engelmann top with mahogany B+S plus an ebony fretboard but something about the J45 gas that was meant to kill would still love the former.

guitarjack66

willo said:

DavidR said:

I have had several FG's over the years

I'm confused though - the impression I got, based on pricing and online reviews, was that the newer FG/S 3 and 5 'red label' reissues were a step up from the made in China LL series? Executed simply but excellently, not 'low end'. Is that not right?

Basically, after two pages of explanations of Yamaha's naming conventions, I'm still confused!

FS means 'Folk Small' I believe? About Concert sized and FG is around Dreadnought sized,I guess?

DavidR

willo said:

DavidR said:

I have had several FG's over the years

I'm confused though - the impression I got, based on pricing and online reviews, was that the newer FG/S 3 and 5 'red label' reissues were a step up from the made in China LL series? Executed simply but excellently, not 'low end'. Is that not right?

Basically, after two pages of explanations of Yamaha's naming conventions, I'm still confused!

My understanding is that FG3 & 5 were an honest attempt to replicate the well regarded Red Label FGs from the 1970s. FG5’s have always retailed for £1K’ish - significantly above usual FG prices. It is my belief that the 3 & the 5 both originate in China. They appear cosmetically identical. It’s just that the 5 is sent to Hamamatsu in Japan for final finishing. As others have noted, Yamaha can be notoriously opaque about the origins of their instruments. Anyway, I can tell you the FG5 ships from Hamamatsu because I ordered one via Yamaha London having tried one out and, on arrival, it had been sent from Hamamatsu. 

So the FG5 and the LL’s are sort of in the same price band and are similar sized instruments. Not many manufacturers would do this but Yamaha can; because they’re so big - perhaps?

The FG9 is a different beast. Almost certainly entirely Japanese and at a much higher price point. Even at today’s prices, what you pay for an FG9 will buy you nearly 3 FG5’s! The FG9 is competing in a different market space and I suspect is aimed at the US market where there is also a lot of love for Yamaha. It is a new departure within the highly successful FG marque. 

Yamaha make great stuff and are arguably the best value of any guitar manufacturer. Many other brands make fantastic instruments but not at Yamaha prices. Hope the FG9 doesn’t spoil that rep. I doubt that it will. I bet Yamaha are keeping a close eye on what reception is given to an expensive FG. As far as I am aware, there has never been one!

imho, anyone considering buying an FG9 should try an FG5 (and, when they have, try an FG3 too!)

fnpt

It's here. First impressions are good: well built, low action, sounding good (although with fresh strings). Only had 10m to play it so will need more time to really have an opinion on it. But so far so good.

https://i.imgur.com/PFOpvS3.jpeg

fnpt

Few more pics:

https://i.imgur.com/AKQp8Ii.jpeg

fnpt

One more:
https://i.imgur.com/pxH8nTp.jpeg

BigPaulie

That's a fine looking guitar there. Very nice.

What's your first impression of the neck profile?

Enjoy.

DavidR

That's very nice. 2 piece back and split neck. Abalone purfling and rosette. Gold accoutrements. Yamaha really build well. How's the tone for you?

Compare it with FG 830. It's similar but a whole step up. 

fnpt

@BigPaulie The neck is perfect for me , kind of a soft C, not chunky, not slim.

@DavidR The tone I still haven't a definite opinion. The strings are fresh and I note a certain stiffness in the sound, if that makes sense. Will have to play quite a bit to break it in but it definitively sounds fuller than my FG720.

tomjax

Out of curiosity, I picked up an all mahogany FG850 for a quick play at a store a couple of days ago. I was genuinely surprised by how great it sounded and how well it played.

Yamaha are knocking it out of the park right now!

fnpt

Having played for a couple of hours this evening I must say I’m really impressed. It sounds really rich and its a joy to play with the satin neck. I think it’s a keeper.

Soupman

Nice looking guitar. Like the rosewood back, and the overall finish looks excellent.
I tried a Yam at GG recently - an LL-TA (a transacoustic model).
Transacoustic aside, (like it or not), the guitar itself was impressive in its own right. Well finished/setup with a nice feel to the neck and a 44mm nut.
The FS series has a 43mm nut - too narrow for me. ( I prefer 45mm) but I could live with this neck, it didn't feel that narrow - perhaps the neck profile helped.

Looks really good, glad you like it. HNGD.

Whitecat

Congrats! That’s an exceptional top btw - beautiful silking and no runout from at least the angles you’ve posted so far. A rare thing in Engelmann these days and many custom builders would charge as much as the guitar cost you just for that piece of spruce. 

fnpt

Thank you all for your comments.

guitarjack66

Soupman said:

Nice looking guitar. Like the rosewood back, and the overall finish looks excellent.
I tried a Yam at GG recently - an LL-TA (a transacoustic model).
Transacoustic aside, (like it or not), the guitar itself was impressive in its own right. Well finished/setup with a nice feel to the neck and a 44mm nut.
The FS series has a 43mm nut - too narrow for me. ( I prefer 45mm) but I could live with this neck, it didn't feel that narrow - perhaps the neck profile helped.

Looks really good, glad you like it. HNGD.

I have heard good things about FS models but at least 44.5mm(the last Sigma I had) is needed for me. 

DavidR

tomjax said:

Out of curiosity, I picked up an all mahogany FG850 for a quick play at a store a couple of days ago. I was genuinely surprised by how great it sounded and how well it played.

Yamaha are knocking it out of the park right now!

Yes. As well as my FG5, I have the FG830. Not sure why anyone would want any more than the current FG800 series at these prices. Nice light, superbly built, playable instrument with good tone.

Is there actually anything better out there for the student than the current Yamahas? And won't they spoil them for so-called 'upper end' instruments when they 'move on'?

They might actually be disappointed!

DOI always been a Yamaha fan.

:-)

Littlejonny

I played on an LS16 last week. I was very impressed at the tone and the feel. It had a nice solid bass and a very strong balanced tone overall. I’d really like one, but have never tried an FG red label. Yamaha make some lovely acoustic guitars that’s for sure. I find them a bit more controlled and less pokey than the equivalent Taylors.