Gibson Garage, London...

Sporky

Dunno about violins, but cellos changed significantly after the baroque period. 

elstoof

Violins too, although they’re almost a different instrument now than baroque violins. Like comparing a mandolin and a banjo

SixStringSage

Sporky said:

Dunno about violins, but cellos changed significantly after the baroque period. 

So we've got a few hundreds years before we should give the guitar a hard time then

onlyatom

elstoof said:

Cutaway neck join, volute, Floyd rose; I expect these are flying off the shelves with the number of people saying Gibson need to do more

Yeah it's got everything, including that low, low price...

Bigsby

SixStringSage said:

Bigsby said:

Under Henry, Gibson just pushed too hard to appear to be innovators, and perhaps, in fairness, their audience is just more conservative too (perhaps always have been? Think of the Strat v. the Les Paul designs). The result was a line of Firebird Xs being crushed, the Tronical deal abruptly ending, and almost their entire line/image being about tradition, heritage and lifestyle, with the 'modern' range looking like an embarrassing secret. 

I firmly feel that Gibson needs to do more with the Modern line. You're right, they pushed too hard under Henry but perhaps have over-corrected now. I suspect Henry's era would've been better if they hadn't done it all on the Standard, and didn't have a confusing line-up with Standard/Plus/Premium and then HP versions on top. 

But my guess is Gibson's aware of what its primary market wants, hence the current focus on signature models and 50s/60s Standards. The Modern line is there, perhaps waiting in the wings for its shot.

 That said, I don't know why they can't incorporate the improved neck heel into the Standard model, who's going to complain about that?

I think Gibson got it right with the initial precursor to the Modern, the High Performance, but made the mistake of applying it to the entire range, something that must have been unsustainable for Gibson and for dealers too. But the initial models had the style of the traditional Gibsons (which most people buying a Gibson want) but with 'upgraded/contemporary' features (which some Gibson customers want, perhaps particularly the younger players rather than collectors). This is just what Fender are doing so well (IMHO) with their current Player/Performer/Pro/Ultra ranges.

Unfortunately, within two years, Gibson made the High Performance models into untraditional and somewhat blingy parodies of their traditional cousins; nowhere more obvious that the SG with it's flame maple top, absent pick guard, pink burst finish, chrome truss rod & pickup covers, and Richlite fretboards. All the new ownership really did was then drop the 'high performance' name and replace it with 'modern' and swap Richlite for ebony.

I agree, Gibson's new ownership are well aware of where their market is strongest, but I'm not sure they've got their eyes on the ball when it comes to the future. And if they've invested too heavily in satisfying the wealthy boomer collector market, they risk ending up being seen as an irrelevant and boring piece of history to the next generation. I know I didn't grow up wanting to play grandad's guitar...  

SixStringSage

Bigsby said:

SixStringSage said:

Bigsby said:

Under Henry, Gibson just pushed too hard to appear to be innovators, and perhaps, in fairness, their audience is just more conservative too (perhaps always have been? Think of the Strat v. the Les Paul designs). The result was a line of Firebird Xs being crushed, the Tronical deal abruptly ending, and almost their entire line/image being about tradition, heritage and lifestyle, with the 'modern' range looking like an embarrassing secret. 

I firmly feel that Gibson needs to do more with the Modern line. You're right, they pushed too hard under Henry but perhaps have over-corrected now. I suspect Henry's era would've been better if they hadn't done it all on the Standard, and didn't have a confusing line-up with Standard/Plus/Premium and then HP versions on top. 

But my guess is Gibson's aware of what its primary market wants, hence the current focus on signature models and 50s/60s Standards. The Modern line is there, perhaps waiting in the wings for its shot.

 That said, I don't know why they can't incorporate the improved neck heel into the Standard model, who's going to complain about that?

I think Gibson got it right with the initial precursor to the Modern, the High Performance, but made the mistake of applying it to the entire range, something that must have been unsustainable for Gibson and for dealers too. But the initial models had the style of the traditional Gibsons (which most people buying a Gibson want) but with 'upgraded/contemporary' features (which some Gibson customers want, perhaps particularly the younger players rather than collectors). This is just what Fender are doing so well (IMHO) with their current Player/Performer/Pro/Ultra ranges.

Unfortunately, within two years, Gibson made the High Performance models into untraditional and somewhat blingy parodies of their traditional cousins; nowhere more obvious that the SG with it's flame maple top, absent pick guard, pink burst finish, chrome truss rod & pickup covers, and Richlite fretboards. All the new ownership really did was then drop the 'high performance' name and replace it with 'modern' and swap Richlite for ebony.

I agree, Gibson's new ownership are well aware of where their market is strongest, but I'm not sure they've got their eyes on the ball when it comes to the future. And if they've invested too heavily in satisfying the wealthy boomer collector market, they risk ending up being seen as an irrelevant and boring piece of history to the next generation. I know I didn't grow up wanting to play grandad's guitar...  

I agree with all of this — I remember when the HP models went 'bling' and I was instantly turned off. (I also think the name High Performance is silly as it implies that the other guitars are what, low performance?) 

I think the naming of Standard/Standard Plus/Standard Premium worked quite well and would have been a good way to do what you're said about Fender, instead of it just being about the grade of top on the Les Paul.

Like for instance you could have a Standard, maybe that's 50's wiring, trad-spec like a regular Standard. The Plus could have the PCB with the new wiring options, and the Premium could have the new wiring options, improved neck heel, asymmetrical neck, that sort of thing. It's clear enough, distinguishes one from the other, and gives traditionalists and contemporary players options.

And I think you're right about the current ownership. I think they've got a lot right, including opening the retail stores, the move into Gibson media, and championing the impressive heritage. But, there needs to be an emphasis on the future and the Modern line currently doesn't fulfil its potential, IMO. That said though, perhaps they're taking the view that instead of trying to be old and new at the same time, they give the brand a shot in the arm with the current activities, and more gradually push Modern to the front. For instance they're adding bold and vibrant colours to the regular Standards now, which could be an early sign of appealing to younger players. 

Offset

We are witnesses at the wedding of two very dear friends next month.  She will become... Iona Gibson.

Beat that :-)

SlopeSoarer

And does she own a Gibson? If not it could be your wedding gift!

elstoof

I pray they name their daughter Isolde 

digitalkettle

elstoof said:

I pray they name their daughter Isolde 

...and their son 'Barnfind'?

CavemanGrogg

I don't understand why people are complaining about the prices of Gibson merchandise, have any of you seen the prices of other brand's merchandise like Fender, Gretsch, Ibanez, PRS, and everyone else, not just what guitar or instrument brands charge for theirs?  When we where down there we bought 9 t-shirts, several shirts, and a tin of pics full of pics I hate just because I wanted the Gibson branded tin, and I don't for one second feel hard done by or ripped off in the slightest means, the clothing is really really good quality, much much better than others merchandise, especially bands merchandise like t-shirts.

Nerine

I got two T-shirts, and a Daddario glass slide for £52 when I was there. 

mrkb

Nerine said:

I got two T-shirts, and a Daddario glass slide for £52 when I was there. 

Has anyone bought a guitar from there, or it’s mainly been T shirts? Do they have a changing room?

digitalkettle

mrkb said:

Nerine said:

I got two T-shirts, and a Daddario glass slide for £52 when I was there. 

Has anyone bought a guitar from there, or it’s mainly been T shirts? Do they have a changing room?

Isn’t there a tailor in the Made2Measure section?

fnpt

https://i.imgur.com/a90kWo7.jpeg

I paid a visit too and this ES 335 immediately caught my eye. Gorgeous. But £8,500? 

AlbertC

mrkb said: Do they have a changing room?

no they do not

vrao

I went today as I wanted to check the feel differences between the different neck profiles of the current models. I haven't tested any Gibson beyond different 80's and 90's models, so I thought the store was going to be perfect.

I really enjoyed trying different models and as many fellows commented earlier the staff offered me to try any model I wanted. I declined to plug any as I was only interested in the neck profiles. I didn't feel observed as they gave me space and time to try the models. Thing that I really appreciate.

Maybe the negative point is that the staff didn't seem deeply familiar with the specs of the different models but that information is easy to find. And the finish of some of the models had clear flaws, like a tuning wrongly screwed in a 80's Flying V. That would make sense for the testing part but I raised an eyebrow when the staff said they only sell what they have in store.

NCo

I was there this week and have nothing but positive things to say about the Gibson staff. I will never buy there anything, as Thomann and other large retailers are so much cheaper, but staff offered me to play anything I looked at.

The Epiphone lads, on the other hand, were... Epiphone? One of them constantly argued that the new 59 is nitro, until he was fact checked by his friend. He was also not aware of the first generation 59 and specs in general. I did get a close look at the new Custom, which had horrible QC issues.