Tone in fingers

stickyfiddle

Here we go again...

Here, John Mayer is almost done playing Gravity, when he spots a fan at the front with a guitar, so he grabs it, plugs in and finishes the solo with the second guitar. It sounds basically identical, and yet there's still a comment war whether the tone is in Mayer's fingers, playing and phrasing, or just because he has posh amps...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VywDHV4ZjhQ

ddlooping

It shows that 2 similar guitars played, seconds apart, by the same musician will sound very similar to each other (apart from the out-of-tuneness) when played through the same rig.

I only wonder why Mayer didn't swing his guitar on his back when he grabbed the other one.

ddlooping

P.S: tone is in everything.

Lewy

Take 3 players and get them to play the same acoustic guitar and they will get (perhaps slightly, perhaps very) different tones. I see this all the time in bluegrass and old time picking sessions. So in principle tone certainly CAN be in the fingers (or more accurately in the technique and physical interface between player and instrument...it's more than just the fingers), but when you have a signal chain at play, how much real world difference that can make is a different matter.

Sporky

I think, again, that part of the issue with this perennial discussion is that "tone" is used to mean many different things. Partly it's timbre, and partly it's phrasing and the like.

In the example it looks like he plays two Strats though the same signal chain so it shouldn't be any surprise that the sound is much the same. After all, to some extent all guitars sound similar (ie they don't sound like a pipe organ or a tambourine).

randomhandclaps

If tone is in the actual finger then why do so many bands spend so much time trying to sound like Sabbath?

ddlooping

They can't find the right prosthetics.

stickyfiddle

Sporky said:

I think, again, that part of the issue with this perennial discussion is that "tone" is used to mean many different things. Partly it's timbre, and partly it's phrasing and the like.

In the example it looks like he plays two Strats though the same signal chain so it shouldn't be any surprise that the sound is much the same. After all, to some extent all guitars sound similar (ie they don't sound like a pipe organ or a tambourine).

"It sounds like a guitar" to coin a phrase

impmann

A good guitarist can make *any* guitar sound good. 

Sporky

stickyfiddle said:

"It sounds like a guitar" to coin a phrase

Exactly! An LP and a Strat and [insert third guitar] do sound different to me, but they sound like different guitars. They are more alike than they are different.

ddlooping

impmann said:

A good guitarist can make *any* guitar sound good. 

But may struggle in the process.

Dave_Mc

Sporky said:

I think, again, that part of the issue with this perennial discussion is that "tone" is used to mean many different things. Partly it's timbre, and partly it's phrasing and the like.

In the example it looks like he plays two Strats though the same signal chain so it shouldn't be any surprise that the sound is much the same. After all, to some extent all guitars sound similar (ie they don't sound like a pipe organ or a tambourine).

Agreed.

Personally I separate it into player tone and gear tone (and even that's probably an oversimplification).

The other thing is, some things are only really apparent to the player- for example, I might struggle more to play something on one guitar than on another, but unless I'm struggling so bad that I can't play it, the audience won't notice that I need to lie down ) EDIT: ^ ninja'd

Lew

they both sounded naff :-p

ddlooping

Lew said:

they both sounded naff :-p

Definitely not his best.

octatonic

Everything matters - there is a lot going on in a Mayer guitar tone but also it is the song, the arrangement, the musicians he's playing with.

randomhandclaps

... and the quiff of course.

bertie

call me a cynic,  but I think its completely staged.

Skipped

I can (and do) argue both sides of this argument (and there may be more than 2 sides)  depending on what mood I am in today (and I bet I am not the only one).
Sporky's points are compelling. If we take 100 guitars and line them up on a tone spectrum (by ear) we all know that the MasterBuilt Custom Shop Strat will be occupying the  same space as the Squire Stratocaster. But that does not mean that a pickup change in a Les Paul is pointless even if they both low output PAF types. The differences may only be noticable at certain amp settings, at particular sweet spots, with particular playing techniques. In other words they would only be noticed by the player who would need to be an Obsessive who is Concentrating.

I am an Obsessive. And I am Concentrating.

ICBM

At the end of the day there are only two electric guitar sounds, clean and distorted.

This statement is both as valid and as invalid as tone being in the fingers...

ESchap

Meanwhile in Buenos Aires ..... an ex John "fingers" Mayer fan says ..... "Ese bastardo mayer blagged mi guitarra!" 

Sporky

Skipped said:

But that does not mean that a pickup change in a Les Paul is pointless even if they both low output PAF types.

Indeed. But it'll sound, before and after, like an electric guitar. Not a bassoon or a timpani or an elephant.