I was going to add this to a already existent thread ,but I thought it was definitely derailing it..
OK first to say as above....This is non species related,,so hopefully not seen as a tonewood debate..
Finishes are added as I am a Guitar Geek..lol..Plus it identifies them..
Wish I had an easier way of posting pictures..
It keeps going wrong..So I have gave up..
Anyway,this is more a weight or there really is no consistency happening at all debate...So again no species involved..
I think that wood of one species is so variable,,it may not matter,,but that's not the discussion,,why I'm trying to remove the species angle....
So.....Why do guitars sound and respond differently,,does weight Matter..?
OK now my findings over nearly 40 well aged wizened,worn out years of playing..lol
Magazines / Books say variable stuff,,much of it doesn't match up with real life my experience..
Both my Teles Blonde heavier and lighter 3 tone Sunburst maple fingerboard are under 8lbs but above 7.5 this works out for me..All weights decimal by the way..
Both sound good and are physically manageable..The lighter a bit more airy..The few oz heavier..A touch more lower mids and focus..
I have 2 Strats Surf Green lightest in weight and slightly heavier Olympic White maple boards.. same pickups One is a bit over 7.5 Lbs,,the other just over 8lbs,
The 8lb one does sound a bit more muscular and potent,,can't think of the right term here..
The lighter one is a bit more airy and less focused..The 8lb is a little better for lead playing..
The 7.5 easier to carry..It still sounds good,but the 8lb has the magic..
All my Fenders are Alder Bodied..The Teles are 3 saddle bridges with brass saddles and the same set of Fender original 50's pickups,I think they are called..Flat Pole Alnico 3 ones..I love the sound of these..
The Strats have a 6 screw trem and it's operational,not locked down..I bar added of course....250 k pots .47 mu cap,exact same pickup set,same with Teles..
I allow a little more weight for a Strat I find both sides of 8lb to sound best and not be too heavy..
Maybe the trem block,,no idea..I just know what weight they are..
A Tele to be under 8 lbs,the Strat top horn makes it feel a little lighter strapped on..
Just my findings,,I had to buy scales and weigh a guitar for a post on here..
At the time I felt a bit forced into it,but it ended up being quite informative and helping influencing my purchase choice after that.
My heaviest full fat bound Les Paul is a Trans Amber Les Paul Standard at just over 10lb's,I have heart problems,this does feel heavy,but I have an emotional attachment to this guitar..The one I have owned the longest is an older style 1960 on the pickguard Lightburst Les Paul Classic..
Not flamed top or anything..This is around 9.5 pound..I love this guitar..It sounds great..The 10 lb sounds a touch thinner and brighter..The 9.5 has more body..Then we have the 9 lb more modern Honeyburst Les Paul Classic..I bought new about a year ago..Great guitar,,wish it had bigger frets..The 60's neck has more shoulder than the other 2 60's necks..A refret isn't cheap..The 9.5 is the one though..The other 2 kind or draw,although the newer one with bigger frets..HMMMM !..The heavy one is the real looker..Trans amber and some,but not too much flame,,only prob apart from weight is the binding is much thicker leaving less rosewood meaning the strings can slip of the edge on the high E if doing unabandoned pull off in the middle of the board....
I should mention that I have experimented a lot with the Les Pauls, when it comes to pickups and ended up making choices on what didn't work before with my particular choices...With my newer Classic,I told Ash at Oil City my info and he sold me a pair of his pickups..Very good they are too..
For the Geeks. Amber has Bare Knuckle Mules 500 k pots a .22 uf cap on the neck .47 uf on the Bridge..
Lightburst has Lollar Imperials 500K pots a 47 uf cap on the neck and a 22 uf on the Bridge..
Honeyburst has a Beano in the Neck and a Night Fighter Alnico IV in the bridge..500 k pots and a 22 uf cap on both..
This one Still has the Gibson Circuit Board in there..The other 2 have no coil splitting and are pre circuitboard..
Interestingly I had a Goldtop Les Paul Classic Modern with the extended cut away / thinned down heel joint area...
This was also 9.5 lbs..When Strapped on it felt like 12 lbs..
So I think weight distribution matter a lot to perceived weight..
Also how the wood was cut from the tree and which part of the tree more that the species,,wood is not a consistent material..
I do think there may be sweet spots as far as weight goes though,,but that could just be in my case having owned a fair amount of guitars..Where and how the wood was cut could negate what I have found with weight..
All I know is a good guitar is a good guitar..Maybe with time you perceive them as better guitars as you play more and more ones that aren't as good as your one..So it is partly the bond rather than the ageing..
Not trying to start a tonewood debate..In fact maybe the opposite..
But strat pickups are mounted in plastic..
So that would mean tone plastic.. ?
Probably more info than needed here..I do tend to enthuse about guitars,a self admitted Geek..
I'm not sure if weight matters..
BUT. both sides of 8lbs for a Strat...A bit under 8lbs for a Tele,,too light and they can get neck heavy..
Between 8.5 and 9.5 lbs for a Les Paul..Maybe even less works OK..
I think too light may influence sustain..
It could just be the character of the Wood in a non species related way..
Because the wood is totally non consistent it could all be pure chance..
Comments
And yes, I don't have lots of like for like experience, because there are always more variables at play. But where I do I've found that heavier guitars are tighter, more solid in the low mids and punchier, and lighter guitars are airier but more clouded in the lows.
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I've had heavy LP etc and it didn't sound as good as the lighter weight ones, I want the jangly type LP unplugged tone personally,
I see no reason to have a heavy guitar these days and I'm purposely not using mahogany anymore unless it'd chambered, I'm using Spanish cedar instead for a typical mahogany maple build.
(formerly customkits)
I really don't think overall weight itself has any effect on "tone" / timbre beyond your comfort and how you approach that guitar.
By way of reply, I'm going to stick my neck out.
I'm not going to provide any supporting evidence because, by the precedent set in this Discussion, there appears to be no need.
Have a nice day.
Formerly TheGuitarWeasel ... Oil City Pickups ... Oil City Blog 7 String.org profile and message
but too light Fender types can sound too airy and unfocused....
I don't know about how light a LP could go..I had a very light Studio weight relieved and that was neck heavy..
It had other problems too..Pity it was a real looker..
I have a Guild Bluesbird which is under 7lb's,but it has a JB in the Bridge..
I used that yesterday in a practice room and it worked in a band situation,but the JB is really high output,,
well for an alnico pickup anyway..The SD 59 works well in the neck though..
That is weight relieved / Semi Hollow but visually like a thinner Les Paul..
I don't think it can be all about the electrics if they are the same basically..
The hardware too..
So does variance in wood influence anything tonally..??
I'm thinking it must,,I can hear obvious differences ,but is this basically a gamble like a roulette wheel there is so much variance..?
Formerly TheGuitarWeasel ... Oil City Pickups ... Oil City Blog 7 String.org profile and message
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Now if I could find that Fernandez I tried in early 1994..There was a Fernandez Goldtop that was just as good,,so easy to play..
Dunno about tone through the amp, but my '73 Les Paul Custom just under 10 pounds great and true to the cliche sustains for days. But so does my Custom Shop Les Paul R4 and that's a least a pound and half lighter.
I have many Teles that vary in weight by as much as a pound. They all sound great to me (with some differences mostly pickups). Some play just a little easier than others.
If you think that anything I posted earlier warrants deletion, please go ahead.
To anybody else, I recommend the book Bad Science by Ben Goldacre. ISBN-968-0-00-724019-7
Always viewed weight as a comfort, rather than an actual tonal attribute.
https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/202071/nco
I have seven solid body electric guitars ranging from ultra-light to ultra-heavy.
The lighter guitars feel like they offer a faster “uptake” of the note, producing sounds that, to me, suggest adjectives like springy, responsive and lively.
The heavier guitars feel like they have a slower uptake of the note that I feel inspired to describe as more assured, authoritative and commanding.
Those descriptions, purely subjectively, feel like they stand outside of factors like sustain, frequency response, and amplitude, even though my brain tells me they could only be objectively measured by a combination of those factors.
Maybe it’s also how they feel in my hands and torso? It’s almost certainly influenced by the observer-expectency effect!
I do hear a difference in tone between different guitars, but not convinced that it is better, or indeed worse, because of weight - I've owned a Yamaha SG since 1978 and by far the heaviest guitar I've owned and still own - At the time it was my be all and end all - Did all my gigs in the 70's and 80's - No shortage of sustain whatsoever - Tone is to hard for me, with not enough warmth about it - is that down to the weight alone and/or the density of the wood - I suspect both - I've tried different paf based p/ups on it to warm it up, but its inherent natural tone doesn't allow it go go in a warmer way - For some, such a one is ideal but not quite for me - Probably works better with more gain, but again that is not me, as less is more for me when it comes to gain - But it plays well and won't be sold by me, partly due to nostalgia, as Dad brought it for me for my 18th - It is still a great guitar but not my go to guitar these days
I've known Fender Guitars that are to light and lack 'body' within the tone and yes pun intended - Especially Tele's - Talking about closer to 7lbs - they maybe airy, but can lack guts as a result
Whilst most of us like a 'certain' type of weight, within a certain +/- factor, weight alone will not tell me how it feels, plays, sounds, responds to me, my playing and touch - I've known some heavy guitars that have a lot going for them - I've known some light guitars that have little going for them - IMO the hands on test is the only true evaluation and certainly no science method will tell me any more about the guitar than my hands and ears - I think we can get drawn into theory to much and as such just listen to the guitar and listen to what it offers you
Formerly TheGuitarWeasel ... Oil City Pickups ... Oil City Blog 7 String.org profile and message