Guitar Weight and tone,,plus of course Compromise / usability..Not Tonewood..

fretmeister

You don't need to buy a kindle unit. I mean - you can if you want, they are excellent! But you do not have to.

There are free Kindle reading apps for smartphones of all types, tablets and iPads, and computers. Just download the right one like any other app. Then buy the book. The text will appear on the screen just like a book would.

If you have poor eyesight (So do I) then you can have the text as big as you want. Some of the apps will actually read it to you if you want!

You do NOT need maths for the book. It's very much an introduction level and the authors know that a load of maths would stop people reading it.

If you understand chord construction then you won't struggle with the book at all.

I like to read last thing at night, in bed. I love going to bed knowing just a little bit more than I knew when I woke up.
It's a great feeling - makes me feel I'm doing something useful and worthwhile with my life.

Have a little faith in yourself! 

OilCityPickups

monquixote said:

I think people who have industry / academic experience get frustrated when people say "Ooo this is a mystery", or state things that are provably incorrect when the information is out there if you choose to find it.

I had a strange upbringing: My grandfather worked for Vickers Supermarine on aircraft design and fabrication. I spent a great part of my childhood being shown by him how to make things from scratch from aluminium, brass etc ... being taught all about engineering tolerances and material sciences as they'd be called today. My father worked for Westland and ultimately the government on rocket research ... he was part scientist part engineer, and he taught me to trust only what I could prove myself  or others could supply cast iron evidence to prove for me.  
I fall into the category of people who have very little time for ineffable mysteries and pseudo-science babble - which I find far too much of connected with guitarists and the guitar industry in general.  

stickyfiddle

@monquixote try a CS336! 97% Les Paul sound with only about 80% of Les Paul weight!! And tolerable upper fret access too! 

Sporky

OilCityPickups said:

I fall into the category of people who have very little time for ineffable mysteries and pseudo-science babble - which I find far too much of connected with guitarists and the guitar industry in general.  

And then the double standards, where they insist they have the right to post uninformed rambling, but anyone disagreeing - with evidence and experience - is a terrible person who should keep quiet - phrases like "people should be free to post their views without being challenged" but not thinking that such statements go both ways. The desperate attempts to portray any challenge as mean-spirited aggression, not to see it as an opportunity to consider one's own position and learn something. 

It's worship of lack of knowledge. I'm amazed at Fretmeister's patience - clearly KevS isn't going to read the book that will answer many of his questions. 

Same thing with music theory - all the insistence that understanding theory somehow forces you to play a different note from the one you want to. Views that can only come from not understanding the subject at question.

Back in my pedal-making days there was someone who refused to read any electronics primers because that would constrain their creativity. Instead they posted thread after thread of "why doesn't this work?", expecting people who did understand to solve the problems for them. They're quite famous now... 

OilCityPickups

Sporky said:

OilCityPickups said:

I fall into the category of people who have very little time for ineffable mysteries and pseudo-science babble - which I find far too much of connected with guitarists and the guitar industry in general.  

And then the double standards, where they insist they have the right to post uninformed rambling, but anyone disagreeing - with evidence and experience - is a terrible person who should keep quiet - phrases like "people should be free to post their views without being challenged" but not thinking that such statements go both ways. The desperate attempts to portray any challenge as mean-spirited aggression, not to see it as an opportunity to consider one's own position and learn something. 

It's worship of lack of knowledge. I'm amazed at Fretmeister's patience - clearly KevS isn't going to read the book that will answer many of his questions. 

Same thing with music theory - all the insistence that understanding theory somehow forces you to play a different note from the one you want to. Views that can only come from not understanding the subject at question.

Back in my pedal-making days there was someone who refused to read any electronics primers because that would constrain their creativity. Instead they posted thread after thread of "why doesn't this work?", expecting people who did understand to solve the problems for them. They're quite famous now... 

There is a phrase that seems to be very popular these days 'my truth'.

It appears there's a widespread belief amongst folks that everyone is entitled to not just to an opinion, but for that opinion not to be challenged simply because it's their own personal 'truth'. It's as if we have all become entitled to our own little universe with it's own personal laws of physics which nobody dare challenge. These truths are seen ans not just being points open to argument, but somehow as pillars of the individuals self worth. When these truths are opposed or attempt is made to show that they are incorrect the individual hits back because they somehow define him or her. 
The belief in the fallibility of scientific proof and the rise crank belief systems seems to be a reaction to the lack of importance and impotence people feel within society today: If you believe in little green men or a hole at the north pole, or the 'deep state' or that Bill Gates wanted to inject nanobots to take over your mind during the pandemic ... well, it makes you just a bit more important as you have special insight and secret knowledge.

The reason forums become mean spirited is that nobody really enjoys debate any more, if they ever did. People want to be publicly right because that makes them feel better about themselves. We want to pose questions we are already convinced of the answers to ... 

I don't think this is a new thing in society, it's just that the internet has given everyone a soapbox but no reality or politeness filter :-)

stickyfiddle

Sporky said:

OilCityPickups said:

I fall into the category of people who have very little time for ineffable mysteries and pseudo-science babble - which I find far too much of connected with guitarists and the guitar industry in general.  

And then the double standards, where they insist they have the right to post uninformed rambling, but anyone disagreeing - with evidence and experience - is a terrible person who should keep quiet - phrases like "people should be free to post their views without being challenged" but not thinking that such statements go both ways. The desperate attempts to portray any challenge as mean-spirited aggression, not to see it as an opportunity to consider one's own position and learn something. 

It's worship of lack of knowledge. I'm amazed at Fretmeister's patience - clearly KevS isn't going to read the book that will answer many of his questions. 

Same thing with music theory - all the insistence that understanding theory somehow forces you to play a different note from the one you want to. Views that can only come from not understanding the subject at question.

Back in my pedal-making days there was someone who refused to read any electronics primers because that would constrain their creativity. Instead they posted thread after thread of "why doesn't this work?", expecting people who did understand to solve the problems for them. They're quite famous now... 

I'm guessing this either rhymes with Heavy Never, or Hay Haitch Hess? 

Anyway, I'm off on holibobs tomorrow. I'm going to get myself a book to read!! 

Sporky

OilCityPickups said:

I don't think this is a new thing in society, it's just that the internet has given everyone a soapbox but no reality or politeness filter :-)

I never had either of those, to be fair.

Interesting post - some perspectives I had not considered - ta. 

The "fallibility of science" bit is something I've seen - people say "science can't explain everything" (without supporting that statement) as a precursor to declaring science - both the proven methodology and the body of knowledge it has generated - useless.

Sticky - your guess is well founded. 

OilCityPickups

Sporky said:

OilCityPickups said:

I don't think this is a new thing in society, it's just that the internet has given everyone a soapbox but no reality or politeness filter :-)

I never had either of those, to be fair.

Interesting post - some perspectives I had not considered - ta. 

The "fallibility of science" bit is something I've seen - people say "science can't explain everything" (without supporting that statement) as a precursor to declaring science - both the proven methodology and the body of knowledge it has generated - useless.

Sticky - your guess is well founded. 

Many years before becoming a pickup winder I studied sociology :-) 

KevS

Sporky,you make many assumptions about me and you appear to be hopping mad...Calm down..
You are winding yourself up now,,as a heart attack victim,,I know to disengage..
You don't know me,I do not matter in your life..

As I said to Funkfingers at the Start..Well done for winning an argument you started...
I don't want an argument and things happen I can't explain at times..
Like the time high humidity killed some of my guitars..
I didn't know I had high humidity,,there was no condensation on window panes,,

Either people in all the guitar shops in Edinburgh had no idea,,or they were telling me the opposite of the truth,,
with a big know it all grin..Calm down,,I am not saying that is you..

So I had to find out the information myself..
Everything is pretty simple,,very simple...I could break the info needed down into a very small paragraph..
Does anyone want to read a huge book to find that paragraph..
I have trouble taking in information at times..I can't help that..I have methods to get around it though..
I am being polite enough to respond when I should be testing pickup heights as they are going plink on the clean channel of my recently acquired Marshall DSL 5..They may not with my Champ..
It could be that the Marshall has a plinky thing going on..
Sorry for rambling onomatopoeia.

I never said I was denying Science,I said that the way Science works is established ideas can be wrong..
The idea here being Can be wrong,,why it works because it is not infallible,,so it moves forward..
Sometimes this can be a shocker..I always had an image of the Dinosaur, T Rex as a kid and up until recently
then I find out they were feathere like a huge Psycho Chicken.
Science is evolving and changing all the times..

Again calm down,,I am not worshipping lack of Knowledge..
You really do come out with inflammatory statements..
Why I reacted like I did to you yesterday..

Music theory,,I have a pretty deep understanding of..
Chord construction Harmony..Jazz soloing embellishments..
The thing that is more important is when I don't have the chords in front of me,
I can hear when I need to change from a Minor tonic to Lydian Dominant via the tritone on the V..
So you can play Lydian Dominant a Half step above the Root..
Or Lydian Augmented below the root..
If you didn't know this move..You probably won't thank me anyway..
The Major Seventh of the one is the Major Third of the Dominant..
So you can do the Sub V trick with the modes of the Melodic Minor Also.. 

Anyway..When I found this,I had been hearing it for ages..
Once I knew how it worked,,I could use it..
Then I started to recognise it straight away from improvising..
So it isn't just what is in the book..
Puttin a Minor third on top of a Dominant chord..
Sharped 9th..You can identify it,,but it's a Blue Note because its a rub..
When I see the term Mixolydian,,I usually use Dorian instead if it's a Blues..
It goes against Music theory,,but I think it sounds better..

Anyway..I am not Anti Music Theory..
I am not Anti Science..
I can find reading hard work..

I shouldn't have to mention it but,,I am an Atheist,,a non Flat Earther,,
I will as it applies to Oil City's comment  too..
Little Green / Grey Men..Most likely not true because of the distances / involved in getting here..
A Very old quote,,was it Drake ?
Space isn't just stranger than we imagine,it's stranger than we can imagine..We still had much to learn..
Just to point out that most of that is built on established theory,,but some Feathered Psych Murder Budgies may appear
I think a lot of people want to be more interesting and it drives them to create stories..
All of the stuff on the internet,,especially when supported by religious patriotism I find Terrifying..
Plus the insane levels of greed,,built into our survival mechanisms to stockpile..
Those 2 things may end our species..

Hopefully we can move past it,,but Humanity's need to be in the Right when armed with these ideas is a very dangerous mix..
Pointing Nuclear Weapons at each other while the Money involved in doing this could feed the World,
but nuclear weapons don't care about Social Class,,Gender or Sexuality etc..
Would our Fathers have been killed on a Battlefield without them..

Rambling I know,but it makes you think..

One Question is though,,if you did keep seeing a Little Green Man would you continually denying i to yourself,
because it can't possibly be true..Would you acknowledge it,but not tell anyone else..
There are of course people who would say...But this question is pointless as they don't exist..

For all of the Facts,,I think as a Musician ,,Creativity is one of the real good parts of the puzzle....


Anyway Sporky calm down..If you do think I am thick as Shite,,you won't change my opinions by getting annoyed.. 

I need to get off this Forum..

I need to order some shopping and play some guitar
 

Sporky

OilCityPickups said:

Many years before becoming a pickup winder I studied sociology :-) 

Ah! I imagine that's something jolly useful to understand. 

Sporky

KevS said:

Sporky,you make many assumptions about me and you appear to be hopping mad...Calm down. 

Oh the irony! I'm entirely calm; no need to mischaracterise me. My recent posts have been entirely general in nature and not aimed at you.  

I'm sorry you find my posts inflammatory; I can't help how other people read them. I suggested the book because you seemed to want to understand the subject better. It's entirely approachable (not said with any assumption about your intelligence, education, or experience, for clarity) and clearly written.

timmypix

KevS said:

Everything is pretty simple,,very simple...I could break the info needed down into a very small paragraph..
Does anyone want to read a huge book to find that paragraph..

 

That this is buried in the fourth of a good fifteen paragraphs is wonderful. 

KevS

A too clean Marshall DSL 5 goes plink in a way a Fender Doesn't..

You Still don't sound calm Sporky,,calm down for your own sake..
If your reaction to this is "ARGGGGHHHHH !!!",,you are not calm..
I didn't think you were questioning my intelligence..
Genuinely I didn't...
I find written word hard to process at times..

I too done a module in Sociology..

Very interesting how people keep pushing that it is Common Sense..
When relating to the Sociological view v's the Common Sense view.
You get to realise that the Common Sense view is the very Wrong view often..
Also that politics preys on Moral Panic and keeping the populace scared..
Then we get to the Stratification of the Class System and how it especially applies in the UK..
I think instead of Socialisation happening in the workplace,,it has now become online..
There is no need to compromise anymore,,so we get echo chambers of polar opposites..

Sporky

I'm not sure why you keep pushing this idea that I'm not calm. I can assure you that it's incorrect and unnecessary. 

Litterick

I was looking forward to reading this discussion. Oh well.

OilCityPickups

KevS said:

A too clean Marshall DSL 5 goes plink in a way a Fender Doesn't..

You Still don't sound calm Sporky,,calm down for your own sake..
If your reaction to this is "ARGGGGHHHHH !!!",,you are not calm..
I didn't think you were questioning my intelligence..
Genuinely I didn't...
I find written word hard to process at times..

I too done a module in Sociology..

Very interesting how people keep pushing that it is Common Sense..
When relating to the Sociological view v's the Common Sense view.
You get to realise that the Common Sense view is the very Wrong view often..
Also that politics preys on Moral Panic and keeping the populace scared..
Then we get to the Stratification of the Class System and how it especially applies in the UK..
I think instead of Socialisation happening in the workplace,,it has now become online..
There is no need to compromise anymore,,so we get echo chambers of polar opposites..

Politics and religion both prey on moral panic in order to control and often subjugate populations. This is how small minorities gain and maintain power. Dictators and their supporting infrastructure would easily be crushed and ousted by the millions of their populations if it wasn't for cultivated fear and superstition that are more effective than all the secret police in the world.

Division is the new social norm ... we are encouraged to 'other' everyone from refugees to the homeless because 'someone must be to blame'.  This gets us out of the awkward truth that collectively we make the society we live in and collectively we could change it - if we could be bothered. 

WezV

I used to teach Sociology in my 20's - not sure its ever had much impact on my guitar building... other than giving me a few free weeks in the summer when I could get a lot built.

KevS

timmypix said:

KevS said:

Everything is pretty simple,,very simple...I could break the info needed down into a very small paragraph..
Does anyone want to read a huge book to find that paragraph..

 

That this is buried in the fourth of a good fifteen paragraphs is wonderful. 

This is a very vague post that might get taken by me as saying I am talking pish.
As I say vague,but I may read you wrong...
Sarcasm does seem to be abundant on here..
I can't be arsed reacting though..lol

But what I was talking about if you are interested is..

Let's call the paragraph below the paragraph..

The more moisture that is in the air / Humidity,the more that the neck will bend in a concave direction for the same given string pull..
So you need to tighten the truss rod,,if the storage situation has too high humidity,,you can run out of truss rod,,
as happened to me..
Wood although unattached to a tree,still  has sacs in it that drink the moisture in the Air....
The moister the wood,,the more bendy.

Lesson learned,if this process starts to happen,get a dehumidifier..
Don't ask Guitar Salesmen..Even the repair guys who called themselves luthiers just said,you need to buy lemon oil,
or even that I needed more humidity..It just seems to be a big gap in guitar knowledge..
Now we have forums..As I've pointed out,,they can be a minefield..

All the guitars that were affected were body end truss rod adjustment Fenders..
These guitars have went to guitar heaven..It was somewhat upsetting..
I lost 3 Japanese and one Mexican Fender..Fender sold no solution to fix this..
I had a nice guy shape me some washers,,actually originally a part for an Avro Vulcan of all things,
The neck still kept moving..One was a 1980s Fender 62 reissue Strat..

I bought a dehumidifier and that kept it under control as I was unable to move.
This happened about 20 years ago..
I have moved recently and don't need a dehumidifier...
Although any time I have to straighten my neck a small tweak..

I couldn't get this information and why it was happening even briefly looking in books..
It is all trying to sell you things,,I think my paragraph  explains things in a way I can understand..

SPECTRUM001

WezV said:

I used to teach Sociology in my 20's - not sure its ever had much impact on my guitar building... other than giving me a few free weeks in the summer when I could get a lot built.

I did Sociology A Level at Windsor Tech in the 1980s. Our class set a new college record - of the fourteen students we got 13 Fails and one O Level pass.

Our teacher was then sacked - not that I am making a connection or anything...

KevS

OilCityPickups said:

KevS said:

A too clean Marshall DSL 5 goes plink in a way a Fender Doesn't..

You Still don't sound calm Sporky,,calm down for your own sake..
If your reaction to this is "ARGGGGHHHHH !!!",,you are not calm..
I didn't think you were questioning my intelligence..
Genuinely I didn't...
I find written word hard to process at times..

I too done a module in Sociology..

Very interesting how people keep pushing that it is Common Sense..
When relating to the Sociological view v's the Common Sense view.
You get to realise that the Common Sense view is the very Wrong view often..
Also that politics preys on Moral Panic and keeping the populace scared..
Then we get to the Stratification of the Class System and how it especially applies in the UK..
I think instead of Socialisation happening in the workplace,,it has now become online..
There is no need to compromise anymore,,so we get echo chambers of polar opposites..

Politics and religion both prey on moral panic in order to control and often subjugate populations. This is how small minorities gain and maintain power. Dictators and their supporting infrastructure would easily be crushed and ousted by the millions of their populations if it wasn't for cultivated fear and superstition that are more effective than all the secret police in the world.

Division is the new social norm ... we are encouraged to 'other' everyone from refugees to the homeless because 'someone must be to blame'.  This gets us out of the awkward truth that collectively we make the society we live in and collectively we could change it - if we could be bothered. 

It isn't the People in Power,it is the Power in the People.....If they only stopped to realise it..

Yep the most vulnerable in Society are to Blame according to the Establishment and it is pushed by the Richest Politicians..

I think most of Society is too brainwashed to even think about it and the media will Demonise anyone who even tries..

Unfortunately this has even been hijacked and used by the Far Right,,Q Anon ,,Alex Jones,David Ike and whoever..
They are trying to take away their freedom and Nazis and Socialists are Apparently the same thing..Hitler had them killed in the Night of the Long Knives..Bonkers..