Disabled Benefits

Hootsmon

Surely to God they can't pull this one off?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn0ry09d50wo

BluesLover

Yes they can, and yes they will.
If Labour get in at the next election, don't expect them to be any better, or more compassionate.
It was Labour that introduced the WCA (work capability assessment) and outsourced the administration of it to a private company, leading to widespread misery and stress. Then the Tories got in and made it even worse.
I've heard nothing encouraging from the likes of Starmer to suggest they'll be any better than the current bunch of sadists and psychopaths.

thumpingrug

I hope it dies a death long before they get to an election.  This lot has buggered about with the benefits system so much that the hoops that have to be jumped through are a test in themselves.  Despite what some elements of the media say claiming long-term disability support due to lifelong impairments to the ability to work or because of day in and day out additional help that someone needs is harder than it has ever been.   Unfortunately, those vulnerable people are some of the least able to stand up for themselves or get TV dramas made of the struggles they experience.   This makes them an easy target for politicians of all types

A life on low income is not a fun life.  People barely survive and if anything breaks down or needs replacing they are pretty much fucked or pray to local loan sharks and a long life in debt or bankruptcy / debt relief order.

The labour party are currently making very wide general statements that could be interpreted in many ways but it's clear that there is no money to suddenly increase spending on the welfare state so I agree with @BluesLover that even a change of Gov will not see much of an improvement.  One can hope they might not make it any worse.

robgilmo

Perhaps ther is no money, it matters not who the banker is, the vault is empty. All the money is in the vaults of the huge companies and isnt going back into the financial systems or the pockets of the people.

Most Profitable Companies in the UK for Apr 2024 (financecharts.com)

Wazmeister

BluesLover said:

Yes they can, and yes they will.
If Labour get in at the next election, don't expect them to be any better, or more compassionate.
It was Labour that introduced the WCA (work capability assessment) and outsourced the administration of it to a private company, leading to widespread misery and stress. Then the Tories got in and made it even worse.
I've heard nothing encouraging from the likes of Starmer to suggest they'll be any better than the current bunch of sadists and psychopaths.

Anyone who gets in next Election will be better and more compassionate than this current lot.

Time for a change.

Im 56 years old, and have never been disillusioned or angry with any Government than this one.

Hidden, shamless, immoral, arrogant, superficial, unaware, self centred, self righteous, zero intergrity.

Political views aside, I do not know how any reasonably intelligent person could vote them back in.

To each one of us: use your vote, whoever you vote for, use your vote.

Open_G

I get it. A life on benefits shouldn’t be a lifestyle choice. Unfortunately when a threshold or assessment criteria is used it will always be challenging to get right. Stringent enough to weed out those that don’t need support and are genuinely able to work but compassionate enough to support those who aren’t. 

The basic theory that was introduced when IB was phased out is sound. Not that you cannot work, but asking “ok you may not be able to spend 40hrs a week in a workplace but what can you do?” For some this is a couple of hours a week of supported volunteering with a sliding scale up to a few hrs of paid employment and into full time. 

The charity I used to work (supporting people with barriers into employment) for had a basic ethos that everyone has something to offer an employer. 

Getting this right from a welfare benefits perspective is tough. It’s also seen as a big bill to the nation. I’d far rather big companies pay tax properly than worry about welfare. 

Sporky

Open_G said:

I get it. A life on benefits shouldn’t be a lifestyle choice. 

PIP isn't enough to live on.

That said, there are people I'd rather were sitting at home on benefits than screwing up everything they touch at work. 

maharg101

When they want to check every six months to see if your limbs have grown back, or if your brain injury has healed, then you know the system is fucked up.

mrkb

maharg101 said:

When they want to check every six months to see if your limbs have grown back, or if your brain injury has healed, then you know the system is fucked up.

My employer asks me to submit timesheets for every week Im working (ie asking for payment for giving up my free time), so i dont see why benefits should be any different.

FastEddie

I would wager there are some who will be hard done by but the problem is that too many have abused the system.
Benefits should be for the few - those who have a 100% need for them. 

As an injured veteran, and one who has worked through so many injuries and set-backs, I find it obscene that people game the system.

There are plenty who can get a job but prefer a life on benefits.

If you distilled all the claimants down to those in genuine need then we could have a fair system. 
The problem is that social media, bad diets, and propaganda have convinced many that they have a 'mental illness'.

Change you diet, do some exercise, stop watching pointless media and get a job.

Work sets you free.
Leave benefits for those with a true need.

It will get worse under Labor. They will create millions of victims and medicate them to the eyeballs. Gross.

breakstuff

FastEddie said:

I would wager there are some who will be hard done by but the problem is that too many have abused the system.
Benefits should be for the few - those who have a 100% need for them. 

As an injured veteran, and one who has worked through so many injuries and set-backs, I find it obscene that people game the system.

There are plenty who can get a job but prefer a life on benefits.

If you distilled all the claimants down to those in genuine need then we could have a fair system. 
The problem is that social media, bad diets, and propaganda have convinced many that they have a 'mental illness'.

Change you diet, do some exercise, stop watching pointless media and get a job.

Work sets you free.
Leave benefits for those with a true need.

It will get worse under Labor. They will create millions of victims and medicate them to the eyeballs. Gross.

That last paragraph is quite a leap. Care to back that up with some reasoning?

Sporky

Aren't the majority of people receiving benefits (excluding pensioners, who IIRC make up the actual majority) already working?

If so, if there is a problem with benefits it's that the state is subsidising below-living-wage jobs; moving money from tax payers to corporations.

equalsql

FastEddie said:

I would wager there are some who will be hard done by but the problem is that too many have abused the system.
Benefits should be for the few - those who have a 100% need for them. 

As an injured veteran, and one who has worked through so many injuries and set-backs, I find it obscene that people game the system.

There are plenty who can get a job but prefer a life on benefits.

If you distilled all the claimants down to those in genuine need then we could have a fair system. 
The problem is that social media, bad diets, and propaganda have convinced many that they have a 'mental illness'.

Change you diet, do some exercise, stop watching pointless media and get a job.

Work sets you free.
Leave benefits for those with a true need.

It will get worse under Labor. They will create millions of victims and medicate them to the eyeballs. Gross.

"Work sets you free". Didn't the Nazis have this written over the gates of Auschwitz?

fretmeister

FastEddie said:

I would wager there are some who will be hard done by but the problem is that too many have abused the system.
Benefits should be for the few - those who have a 100% need for them. 

As an injured veteran, and one who has worked through so many injuries and set-backs, I find it obscene that people game the system.

There are plenty who can get a job but prefer a life on benefits.

If you distilled all the claimants down to those in genuine need then we could have a fair system. 
The problem is that social media, bad diets, and propaganda have convinced many that they have a 'mental illness'.

Change you diet, do some exercise, stop watching pointless media and get a job.

Work sets you free.
Leave benefits for those with a true need.

It will get worse under Labor. They will create millions of victims and medicate them to the eyeballs. Gross.

1: IIRC benefit fraud is under 1% of the total benefit bill. That means 99% have not abused the system. That sort of efficiency should be applauded.

2: Nobody wants a mental illness. Generally speaking people deny they have a mental illness to their own detriment and those around them and it takes a long time to get people to accept they need help of any kind.

3: Quoting the words on a gate of the most infamous concentration / extermination camp in history is a very bad look and ruins your credibility in this thread, and in fact ruins your credibility in everything.

DrCornelius

equalsql said:

FastEddie said:

I would wager there are some who will be hard done by but the problem is that too many have abused the system.
Benefits should be for the few - those who have a 100% need for them. 

As an injured veteran, and one who has worked through so many injuries and set-backs, I find it obscene that people game the system.

There are plenty who can get a job but prefer a life on benefits.

If you distilled all the claimants down to those in genuine need then we could have a fair system. 
The problem is that social media, bad diets, and propaganda have convinced many that they have a 'mental illness'.

Change you diet, do some exercise, stop watching pointless media and get a job.

Work sets you free.
Leave benefits for those with a true need.

It will get worse under Labor. They will create millions of victims and medicate them to the eyeballs. Gross.

"Work sets you free". Didn't the Nazis have this written over the gates of Auschwitz?

There will be big metal signs over the front door of every job centre as part of a strategic rebrand

Seriously though, I would like to see a proper trial of universal income in some areas to see if the benefits outweigh the initial costs

thumpingrug

fretmeister said:

FastEddie said:

I would wager there are some who will be hard done by but the problem is that too many have abused the system.
Benefits should be for the few - those who have a 100% need for them. 

As an injured veteran, and one who has worked through so many injuries and set-backs, I find it obscene that people game the system.

There are plenty who can get a job but prefer a life on benefits.

If you distilled all the claimants down to those in genuine need then we could have a fair system. 
The problem is that social media, bad diets, and propaganda have convinced many that they have a 'mental illness'.

Change you diet, do some exercise, stop watching pointless media and get a job.

Work sets you free.
Leave benefits for those with a true need.

It will get worse under Labor. They will create millions of victims and medicate them to the eyeballs. Gross.

1: IIRC benefit fraud is under 1% of the total benefit bill. That means 99% have not abused the system. That sort of efficiency should be applauded.

The official Gov figure for benefit fraud is 3% but that includes payments made by the DWP in error.   I have seen past figures, but unfortunately can't lay my fingers on the source right now, showing that actual deliberate fraud was around 0.6% of the overall benefits bill.  That includes all pensions and benefits - a huge amount of the fraud comes from retirement pension continuing to be paid after death.   Fraud in disability benefits is tiny.    

Penn

https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/governmentpublicsectorandtaxes/publicsectorfinance/articles/howisthewelfarebudgetspent/2016-03-16#:~:text=Around%2520%C2%A330%2520billion%2520is,goes%2520on%2520elderly%2520care%2520payments.

Interesting what gets spent on different things. 

Pensions look to be the biggest cost.  

Axe_meister

The problem is that social media, bad diets, and propaganda have convinced many that they have a 'mental illness'.
My son is T-total, stays away from most social Media (due to past bullying on social media), is on a strict diet to support his sport (Calisthenics). Yet due to his Mental health issues (he is on the spectrum with ADHD, ODD, PDA), he is unlikely to hold a job down. He is dropping out of uni at the end of the year, because he can't deal with the stress and anxiety.
In fact just trying to apply for benefits puts him in such anxiety he cannot function. 
Maybe it's the other way round people have Mental Illness, but propaganda reinforces it and gives you the wrong information, rather than having a well funded system that can actually help you.

breakstuff

FastEddie said:

I would wager there are some who will be hard done by but the problem is that too many have abused the system.
Benefits should be for the few - those who have a 100% need for them. 

As an injured veteran, and one who has worked through so many injuries and set-backs, I find it obscene that people game the system.

There are plenty who can get a job but prefer a life on benefits.

If you distilled all the claimants down to those in genuine need then we could have a fair system. 
The problem is that social media, bad diets, and propaganda have convinced many that they have a 'mental illness'.

Change you diet, do some exercise, stop watching pointless media and get a job.

Work sets you free.
Leave benefits for those with a true need.

It will get worse under Labor. They will create millions of victims and medicate them to the eyeballs. Gross.

Can I also ask why you have the words mental illness in inverted commas? Are you suggesting 'it's not a thing'?

It doesn't exist?

Emp_Fab

"Veteran" "Labor" "Gross" - all very American words.  Are you British?  Do you live in Britain?

munckee

thumpingrug said:

fretmeister said:

FastEddie said:

I would wager there are some who will be hard done by but the problem is that too many have abused the system.
Benefits should be for the few - those who have a 100% need for them. 

As an injured veteran, and one who has worked through so many injuries and set-backs, I find it obscene that people game the system.

There are plenty who can get a job but prefer a life on benefits.

If you distilled all the claimants down to those in genuine need then we could have a fair system. 
The problem is that social media, bad diets, and propaganda have convinced many that they have a 'mental illness'.

Change you diet, do some exercise, stop watching pointless media and get a job.

Work sets you free.
Leave benefits for those with a true need.

It will get worse under Labor. They will create millions of victims and medicate them to the eyeballs. Gross.

1: IIRC benefit fraud is under 1% of the total benefit bill. That means 99% have not abused the system. That sort of efficiency should be applauded.

The official Gov figure for benefit fraud is 3% but that includes payments made by the DWP in error.   I have seen past figures, but unfortunately can't lay my fingers on the source right now, showing that actual deliberate fraud was around 0.6% of the overall benefits bill.  That includes all pensions and benefits - a huge amount of the fraud comes from retirement pension continuing to be paid after death.   Fraud in disability benefits is tiny.    

To be fair though its only fraud if they catch it isn't it.  Who could say how many people are exaggerating their condtions or symptoms.  I'm sure its not as much as the naysayers claim but I suspect its a lot more than the estimated figures.