Disabled Benefits

DrCornelius

Its classic Tory media spin isn't it.  Get the Daily Mail to run loads of articles about asylum seekers committing crimes, benefits claimants having mobile phones and giant TVs and turn working people's frustration against those struggling the most.  The last thing they want is for working people to look at the gap between rich and poor widening ever further and the destruction of the middle classes as that threatens the people at the top 

fretmeister

munckee said:

thumpingrug said:

fretmeister said:

FastEddie said:

I would wager there are some who will be hard done by but the problem is that too many have abused the system.
Benefits should be for the few - those who have a 100% need for them. 

As an injured veteran, and one who has worked through so many injuries and set-backs, I find it obscene that people game the system.

There are plenty who can get a job but prefer a life on benefits.

If you distilled all the claimants down to those in genuine need then we could have a fair system. 
The problem is that social media, bad diets, and propaganda have convinced many that they have a 'mental illness'.

Change you diet, do some exercise, stop watching pointless media and get a job.

Work sets you free.
Leave benefits for those with a true need.

It will get worse under Labor. They will create millions of victims and medicate them to the eyeballs. Gross.

1: IIRC benefit fraud is under 1% of the total benefit bill. That means 99% have not abused the system. That sort of efficiency should be applauded.

The official Gov figure for benefit fraud is 3% but that includes payments made by the DWP in error.   I have seen past figures, but unfortunately can't lay my fingers on the source right now, showing that actual deliberate fraud was around 0.6% of the overall benefits bill.  That includes all pensions and benefits - a huge amount of the fraud comes from retirement pension continuing to be paid after death.   Fraud in disability benefits is tiny.    

To be fair though its only fraud if they catch it isn't it.  Who could say how many people are exaggerating their condtions or symptoms.  I'm sure its not as much as the naysayers claim but I suspect its a lot more than the estimated figures.

10% would be a lot more - and that would still mean a government system managing 90% efficiency. Still amazing.

thumpingrug

fretmeister said:

munckee said:

thumpingrug said:

fretmeister said:

FastEddie said:

I would wager there are some who will be hard done by but the problem is that too many have abused the system.
Benefits should be for the few - those who have a 100% need for them. 

As an injured veteran, and one who has worked through so many injuries and set-backs, I find it obscene that people game the system.

There are plenty who can get a job but prefer a life on benefits.

If you distilled all the claimants down to those in genuine need then we could have a fair system. 
The problem is that social media, bad diets, and propaganda have convinced many that they have a 'mental illness'.

Change you diet, do some exercise, stop watching pointless media and get a job.

Work sets you free.
Leave benefits for those with a true need.

It will get worse under Labor. They will create millions of victims and medicate them to the eyeballs. Gross.

1: IIRC benefit fraud is under 1% of the total benefit bill. That means 99% have not abused the system. That sort of efficiency should be applauded.

The official Gov figure for benefit fraud is 3% but that includes payments made by the DWP in error.   I have seen past figures, but unfortunately can't lay my fingers on the source right now, showing that actual deliberate fraud was around 0.6% of the overall benefits bill.  That includes all pensions and benefits - a huge amount of the fraud comes from retirement pension continuing to be paid after death.   Fraud in disability benefits is tiny.    

To be fair though its only fraud if they catch it isn't it.  Who could say how many people are exaggerating their condtions or symptoms.  I'm sure its not as much as the naysayers claim but I suspect its a lot more than the estimated figures.

10% would be a lot more - and that would still mean a government system managing 90% efficiency. Still amazing.

Im pretty sure these figures are open to independent scrutiny and therefore will be as close as accurate as it can be.  They will include some weighting for those who have slipped through the very tight net.  I would suggest that if the govs own figures on this show a very low level of fraud its more likely to be less than this than more.  They don't gain in the propaganda game but haveing low numbers

fretmeister

thumpingrug said:

fretmeister said:

munckee said:

thumpingrug said:

fretmeister said:

To be fair though its only fraud if they catch it isn't it.  Who could say how many people are exaggerating their condtions or symptoms.  I'm sure its not as much as the naysayers claim but I suspect its a lot more than the estimated figures.

10% would be a lot more - and that would still mean a government system managing 90% efficiency. Still amazing.

Im pretty sure these figures are open to independent scrutiny and therefore will be as close as accurate as it can be.  They will include some weighting for those who have slipped through the very tight net.  I would suggest that if the govs own figures on this show a very low level of fraud its more likely to be less than this than more.  They don't gain in the propaganda game but haveing low numbers

Yup - agreed.

digitalscream

FastEddie said:

I would wager there are some who will be hard done by but the problem is that too many have abused the system.
Benefits should be for the few - those who have a 100% need for them. 

Ask yourself this - how much of it is people abusing the system, and how much is people whose mental health has been damaged by the constant erosion of services meant to prevent this in the first place?

Yes, it's easy to say "Oh, it's just people taking the piss" and indignantly write it off. The overwhelming likelihood, though, is that this is the direct result of public services being stripped away over the last decade and a half.

As far as I'm concerned, clinical depression and anxiety are legitimate (and expected) responses to the development of this country's society, economy and individual prospects over the last 15 years.

DefaultM

It’s very difficult to get PIP. We applied when my wife became disabled and it’s a humiliating process getting you to talk about and do all manner of things that they then ignore and completely fabricate things in the decision letter.
She was awarded the lower level of about £200 a month. Clearly a life altering sum, well worth humiliating yourself for.

 One example, for some reason they decided to ask her how she was at handling finances. I thought it was irrelevant to her condition but I thought they must be asking for a reason, and the reality is she’s absolutely fucking shit at it. I gave example after example for why and how much debt she had got herself in to and how she can’t be trusted with money.
 When the decision letter arrived it said “you can handle a complex family budget on your own with no assistance”. 

There was stuff like that all through it. 

In one of her many 2.5 hour reviews to check she was still disabled(?!) I sat and watched her have an autistic meltdown (autism isn’t why we applied) because the questions had made her feel like shit and she was so ashamed and humiliated saying she was fucking useless and she was ruining mine and the kids lives and she wished she was dead. It was incredibly upsetting. 

The letter arrived and they scored her lower than before, said she was jovial throughout the interview and showed no signs of distress. 

It’s run by cunts that are rewarded for giving less or no money to people. I find it difficult to imagine someone with no conditions wants to avoid work and go through all that and actually manages to trick them. If they do manage it then it’s such a pittance anyway.

strumjoughlamps

Never mind 

fretmeister

My missus is on PIP. As said up there ^ it's an absolute battle to even get the minimum.
And then the reasons for only getting the minimum are so damn twisted it's positively Kafkaesque. 

Hootsmon

The mental side of it is the pits man.....I have issues that clearly show up on XRay that these horrid assessors can clearly see but for anxiety or depression, God help you

In my 30's I has an assessment for benefit and the examiner doctor guy ( a porter no doubt) asked me to retrieve a piece of paper he dropped from the floor

I bent down to pick up his blessed piece of paper in the only fashion I was able to due to spinal condition.....and you know what that cunt said to me? ( it still fuckin' hurts) " that looked as though you have been coached"

I could have burst into tears 

Moloch

FastEddie said:

I would wager there are some who will be hard done by but the problem is that too many have abused the system.
Benefits should be for the few - those who have a 100% need for them. 

As an injured veteran, and one who has worked through so many injuries and set-backs, I find it obscene that people game the system.

There are plenty who can get a job but prefer a life on benefits.

If you distilled all the claimants down to those in genuine need then we could have a fair system. 
The problem is that social media, bad diets, and propaganda have convinced many that they have a 'mental illness'.

Change you diet, do some exercise, stop watching pointless media and get a job.

Work sets you free.
Leave benefits for those with a true need.

It will get worse under Labor. They will create millions of victims and medicate them to the eyeballs. Gross.

I always wondered what the result would be if Andrew Tate and Reinhard Heydrich wanked on the same keyboard. Thanks for providing the answer.

m_c

The issue is, there are lots of people who game the system.

I know somebody younger than me, who plays the autism card and has never worked a day in his life and gets a council flat. When he got the diagnosis, he quite proudly announced it to a group of us sat having lunch. Somebody did call him out on it, and said out of everybody sat at the table, he was probably about 4th or 5th in the list of showing autistic traits.
His background is his parents have played the system for years. His parents were almost proud when his mum got a cancer diagnosis, as it meant they would then qualify for a disability car, which they then complained about losing when she got the all clear.
The fact is, he's just lazy and doesn't want the inconvenience of working, as he's been brought up to play the system, and encouraged to do so by his parents.

Or there was the kinship carer my mum knew when she was involved with the local kinship carers. Always complaining she had no money, yet she had a disability car, always had the latest iPhone, and went to Spain 4 times a year on holiday.

Or my brother's mate's neighbours, who haven't worked for decades and played the disability card. If they think somebody is watching, they'll hobble around with walking sticks, yet if they think nobody is watching, they'll walk around with no sticks without any problems.

Or one of my brother's former employees. Perfectly good worker if you kept him sober. He found out you could get an alcoholic allowance, so why work if you can spend your day in the pub?


It's because of people like that the system is broken.
I have no doubt there are those who really do need the support, but how do you separate the genuine cases from those playing the system?

DefaultM

m_c said:

The issue is, there are lots of people who game the system.

I know somebody younger than me, who plays the autism card and has never worked a day in his life and gets a council flat. When he got the diagnosis, he quite proudly announced it to a group of us sat having lunch. Somebody did call him out on it, and said out of everybody sat at the table, he was probably about 4th or 5th in the list of showing autistic traits.
His background is his parents have played the system for years. His parents were almost proud when his mum got a cancer diagnosis, as it meant they would then qualify for a disability car, which they then complained about losing when she got the all clear.
The fact is, he's just lazy and doesn't want the inconvenience of working, as he's been brought up to play the system, and encouraged to do so by his parents.

Or there was the kinship carer my mum knew when she was involved with the local kinship carers. Always complaining she had no money, yet she had a disability car, always had the latest iPhone, and went to Spain 4 times a year on holiday.

Or my brother's mate's neighbours, who haven't worked for decades and played the disability card. If they think somebody is watching, they'll hobble around with walking sticks, yet if they think nobody is watching, they'll walk around with no sticks without any problems.

Or one of my brother's former employees. Perfectly good worker if you kept him sober. He found out you could get an alcoholic allowance, so why work if you can spend your day in the pub?


It's because of people like that the system is broken.
I have no doubt there are those who really do need the support, but how do you separate the genuine cases from those playing the system?

I didn’t realise I could get a free flat. Does it matter that I already own a house? They didn’t mention any of this in the brochure.

VimFuego

£39bn spunked against the wall by these crooks and the terminally hard of thinking gammons get all frothing at the mouth about this?!? Fuck me gently, no wonder we're in the shit state we are. Surprised one of them hasn't banged on about woke!!!

hollywoodrox

Wazmeister said:

BluesLover said:

Yes they can, and yes they will.
If Labour get in at the next election, don't expect them to be any better, or more compassionate.
It was Labour that introduced the WCA (work capability assessment) and outsourced the administration of it to a private company, leading to widespread misery and stress. Then the Tories got in and made it even worse.
I've heard nothing encouraging from the likes of Starmer to suggest they'll be any better than the current bunch of sadists and psychopaths.

Anyone who gets in next Election will be better and more compassionate than this current lot.

Time for a change.

Im 56 years old, and have never been disillusioned or angry with any Government than this one.

Hidden, shamless, immoral, arrogant, superficial, unaware, self centred, self righteous, zero intergrity.

Political views aside, I do not know how any reasonably intelligent person could vote them back in.

To each one of us: use your vote, whoever you vote for, use your vote.

The same morons will vote them in again a lot of our society read those awful newspapers 
hate foreigners think people on benefits are living a champagne lifestyle and that anyone vaguely left leaning is a member of hamas ,an anti semite & will run the countries debt up ( which is usually done by the conservatives )  democracy is a joke as the media hound anyone to death who doesn’t stand for the agendas set by the ruling elite  the media are out of control & should be held more accountable  plus we now have to contend with social media disinformation campaigns .  Unfortunately My party The U.K. Red Army Faction only has one member & that’s me lol 

Gulliver

I agree that reducing the number of PIP payments is a good thing.

But as is typical for the current Government - they are treating a symptom not the disease.

Maybe if the country actually functioned properly - like you could access mental health services, or see a doctor, or afford your bills - then there would be fewer people needing to claim.  But no, rather than sort the problem, these pricks have decided to just cut payments and that'll be fine.

Incredibly short-sighted and potentially dangerous decision making, no change there...

CavemanGrogg

mrkb said:

maharg101 said:

When they want to check every six months to see if your limbs have grown back, or if your brain injury has healed, then you know the system is fucked up.

My employer asks me to submit timesheets for every week Im working (ie asking for payment for giving up my free time), so i dont see why benefits should be any different.

I can tell from your post that you yourself have never had to attend an assessment for yourself, nor had to take a family member to an assessment.  As somebody who has done it twice - taken a family member to an assessment, I can assure you that it is the most humiliating and degrading thing that another person can be put through.  It's so bad,that the last time my wheelchair bound cousin who is on PIP, did his, they actually dropped him and broke his leg, this was after they ignored several demands from his doctors stating that the assessments must be done at his house due to his severe mobility and other issues, which the DWP conveniently ignored and forced him to come in for, before dropping him, and badly breaking his leg.

As far as I'm concerned, if you're an assessment officer for the DWP, you and every member of your family should be lined up in front of a firing squad and shot, then the cost of those bullets should be charged to and paid for by any surviving extended family member, no matter how distantly related they are to you.  Assessment officers are nothing short of being sub human parasites that the world would vastly improve, if we wiped them and their entire bloodlines out of existence.  The Nuremberg trials established long before any member here was born that ''I was just following orders'', is neither an excuse or a legal defense, these arseholes should not be allowed to simply state ''I was just following orders/protocols/rules'' and held accountable for their actions.

What happened to my cousin at the last assessment he attended which was a few years before covid, our MP - we both have the same MP, was so livid and pissed off, that he now no longer has to attended them - he was also awarded a pretty tidy payout.

slacker

It's been a long running methodology that because the government is too incompetent to catch the wrong uns they pick easy targets. 

It's tax avoiders next but they will target tax payers.

Wazmeister

Gulliver said:

I agree that reducing the number of PIP payments is a good thing.

But as is typical for the current Government - they are treating a symptom not the disease.

Maybe if the country actually functioned properly - like you could access mental health services, or see a doctor, or afford your bills - then there would be fewer people needing to claim.  But no, rather than sort the problem, these pricks have decided to just cut payments and that'll be fine.

Incredibly short-sighted and potentially dangerous decision making, no change there...

Bingo.

thumpingrug

m_c said:

The issue is, there are lots of people who game the system.

I know somebody younger than me, who plays the autism card and has never worked a day in his life and gets a council flat. When he got the diagnosis, he quite proudly announced it to a group of us sat having lunch. Somebody did call him out on it, and said out of everybody sat at the table, he was probably about 4th or 5th in the list of showing autistic traits.
His background is his parents have played the system for years. His parents were almost proud when his mum got a cancer diagnosis, as it meant they would then qualify for a disability car, which they then complained about losing when she got the all clear.
The fact is, he's just lazy and doesn't want the inconvenience of working, as he's been brought up to play the system, and encouraged to do so by his parents.

Or there was the kinship carer my mum knew when she was involved with the local kinship carers. Always complaining she had no money, yet she had a disability car, always had the latest iPhone, and went to Spain 4 times a year on holiday.

Or my brother's mate's neighbours, who haven't worked for decades and played the disability card. If they think somebody is watching, they'll hobble around with walking sticks, yet if they think nobody is watching, they'll walk around with no sticks without any problems.

Or one of my brother's former employees. Perfectly good worker if you kept him sober. He found out you could get an alcoholic allowance, so why work if you can spend your day in the pub?


It's because of people like that the system is broken.
I have no doubt there are those who really do need the support, but how do you separate the genuine cases from those playing the system?

But this simply isnt true.

There are NOT lots of people gaming the system.

There is NOT an "alcoholic allowance"

So what if the carer chooses to go to Spain - it's her money - she needs the rest for fuck sake.  Carers allowance is £80 per week for a minimum - MINIMUM - of 35 hours per week.   Even if she only does that minimum - its only just over £2 per hour.  She may get other income to top this up but that will be means tested - so yes she skint and probably budgets like fuck to be able to get a cheap break every so often - it might even be paid for by the cared for a person - who is also going on holiday and need the carer to go with them.

She wont get a car for being a carer it will belong to the person she's caring for.  

Autism is a complex illness affecting people is different ways - are you a doctor

and are you suggesting that a cancer diagnosis was a good thing??? - you need to reexamine some of your own life choices.

FastEddie

breakstuff said:

FastEddie said:

I would wager there are some who will be hard done by but the problem is that too many have abused the system.
Benefits should be for the few - those who have a 100% need for them. 

As an injured veteran, and one who has worked through so many injuries and set-backs, I find it obscene that people game the system.

There are plenty who can get a job but prefer a life on benefits.

If you distilled all the claimants down to those in genuine need then we could have a fair system. 
The problem is that social media, bad diets, and propaganda have convinced many that they have a 'mental illness'.

Change you diet, do some exercise, stop watching pointless media and get a job.

Work sets you free.
Leave benefits for those with a true need.

It will get worse under Labor. They will create millions of victims and medicate them to the eyeballs. Gross.

That last paragraph is quite a leap. Care to back that up with some reasoning?

Sure.
Labor have already said they will provide mental health support staff in schools.

There is the conveyor belt of medicated victims and voters. Designed to be glued to state benefits through constant affirmation, medication, and merge benefits.
It is a policy of grooming and is a shocking treatment of the young.

The other problem is diet. Kids swigging Red Bull and those awful Monster drinks. Eating industrial waste made to look pretty and laced with awful chemicals.

Obesity is rife as a result of all the above. It is a quiet and slow dumbing down of society.

There is no political party in the UK strong enough to stop it.