Cornish pedals and similar expensive pedal makers ?

p90fool

Heartfeltdawn said:

p90fool said:

This completely misses the point IMO. Cornish DOESN'T survive by selling to aspiring amateurs, he sells tour-worthy equipment systems to professional musicians and their road managers/techs, by word of mouth.
He's not "charging what he likes", road managers have budgets too.

While celebrity endorsements do no harm (and Cornish supplies probably more than most percentage-wise) almost nobody outside gear fora has the remotest interest in sounding like David bloody Gilmour, and never did.

The idea that he could survive alone on his professional client list is not supported by his online client list unless you're seriously claiming that making cables for the fucking Fratellis kept Pete in Weetabix over 2013. 

The reality is more likely to be provided by his serial code decoder page and the ex-dealers. I would suggest that once demand got big PC cut back on the dealers and relied more on direct sales. Less hassle from dealers, more cash made from direct sales, and it will be aspiring amateurs where the bulk of his sales will be. 

I'm very out of date with this stuff, so I'm sure you're correct - Pete Cornish doubtless has become an aspirational brand for those "in the know".

His reputation though (and therefore to an extent his prices) was still undoubtedly built on custom-built, almost military-style rigs and switching systems for touring pros. I still think it's a shame though when talking about value for money to lump a bespoke rig designer in with builders of crude, noisy dirtbox replicas which originally cost 19 shillings and sixpence.

They both have their place but in terms of the "are they a rip-off?" question they are completely different products for different markets IMO.

juansolo

p90fool said:

juansolo said:

Cornish survives as a pedal manufacturer on word of mouth and the fact that he make pedals for a certain David Gilmour. An endorsement like that means that you can just charge whatever you like and someone will pay it because who doesn't want to sound like Gilmour?!

This completely misses the point IMO. Cornish DOESN'T survive by selling to aspiring amateurs, he sells tour-worthy equipment systems to professional musicians and their road managers/techs, by word of mouth.
He's not "charging what he likes", road managers have budgets too.

While celebrity endorsements do no harm (and Cornish supplies probably more than most percentage-wise) almost nobody outside gear fora has the remotest interest in sounding like David bloody Gilmour, and never did.

Badly phrased on my part. He charges a great deal for his work and gets it.

Also, prior to him making pedals for Gilmour, who had actually heard of Cornish...?

Finally, gig worthy gear for professional musicians... That's Boss isn't it...?

p90fool

juansolo said:

Also, prior to him making pedals for Gilmour, who had actually heard of Cornish...?

Ermm, Robert Fripp? Bill Nelson? Even the Bay City Rollers were using full Cornish rigs before Gilmour.

Perhaps only Gilmour fans hadn't heard of him until Gilmour did.

RaymondLin

What gets me though is that all this supposed to be "touring grade" pedals and supposed to be "best" sound and I say best in quote because it's subjective. One would think you see his pedals littered all across boards on professionals. I find that to be complete contrary. Of all the boards I have seen on TGP and all the rig rundown on YouTube. Cornish pedals hardly ever show up, if at all.

xHymnal

PC became famous for his rigs more than his pedals, though that has evened out. This whole thing about making tour quality pro grade pedals is misleading, most pedals out there are gig worthy and pro grade. Most pro boards I see use very standard pedals: why? Because they are readily available on the road in case something goes wrong. 

When p90fool takes offence at someone making crude noisy dirtboxes for similar prices I have to laugh, a builder like D*A*M is the very best in that field, like PC is in his respective field therefore commands the best prices. People who want vintage tone pay a lot for it usually, so vintage accurate clones built to a really high standard command a high price. Even a D*A*M mkii at £500 odd is considerably cheaper than an original '66 mk2. Different markets yes, but one being more value for money than the other: i beg to differ. 

allicio

Hey!!!
Ive got a board full of crude noisy dirtbox replicas I'll have you know! Don't go tying them in with gooped warranty voided stickered grey boxes Mr!!!!

Danny1969

I would like to see some gutshots of Cornish pedals. Are there any ?

allicio

Problem is if you break the seal you void the warranty so I don't think too many folks wanna risk opening them up

Drew_TNBD

allicio said:

Problem is if you break the seal you void the warranty

And there are many questions as to why this is so. Some say it's because the innards are bonehead simple.

randomhandclaps

Drew_fx said:

allicio said:

Problem is if you break the seal you void the warranty

And there are many questions as to why this is so. Some say it's because the innards are bonehead simple.

Some say it's because there be the souls of the undead trapped inside.

In fairness they are simple.   The circuits are widely available, as are the originals that PC modded, altered, rehoused or made his own.

xHymnal

Danny1969 said:

I would like to see some gutshots of Cornish pedals. Are there any ?

xHymnal

Danny1969 said:

I would like to see some gutshots of Cornish pedals. Are there any ?

Danny1969

Hymnal said:

Danny1969 said:

I would like to see some gutshots of Cornish pedals. Are there any ?

Thanks dude I know it don't show on here but I got the url from it

Here

Whats the coating on the pcb ?

p90fool

RaymondLin said:

What gets me though is that all this supposed to be "touring grade" pedals and supposed to be "best" sound and I say best in quote because it's subjective. One would think you see his pedals littered all across boards on professionals. I find that to be complete contrary. Of all the boards I have seen on TGP and all the rig rundown on YouTube. Cornish pedals hardly ever show up, if at all.

His rep was built on rehousing existing favourite pedals for clients, into integrated rig systems with decent switching and buffers etc.
Standalone pedals are a relatively recent addition, allowing mere mortals to sample a bit of Cornish "mojo", while slightly missing the original point. (IMO)

Drew_TNBD

Generally, touring rigs will be full of the most common as muck pedals and amps that you can think of. Real touring guys can't afford for a one of a kind boutique pedal to fail on them, no matter how good it is or unique it sounds.

RaymondLin

p90fool said:

RaymondLin said:

What gets me though is that all this supposed to be "touring grade" pedals and supposed to be "best" sound and I say best in quote because it's subjective. One would think you see his pedals littered all across boards on professionals. I find that to be complete contrary. Of all the boards I have seen on TGP and all the rig rundown on YouTube. Cornish pedals hardly ever show up, if at all.

His rep was built on rehousing existing favourite pedals for clients, into integrated rig systems with decent switching and buffers etc.
Standalone pedals are a relatively recent addition, allowing mere mortals to sample a bit of Cornish "mojo", while slightly missing the original point. (IMO)

So he used his reputation for something else to make regular pedals in his housing. As opposed to famous for making unique voiced or "better" pedals?

Gassage

RaymondLin said:

p90fool said:

RaymondLin said:

What gets me though is that all this supposed to be "touring grade" pedals and supposed to be "best" sound and I say best in quote because it's subjective. One would think you see his pedals littered all across boards on professionals. I find that to be complete contrary. Of all the boards I have seen on TGP and all the rig rundown on YouTube. Cornish pedals hardly ever show up, if at all.

His rep was built on rehousing existing favourite pedals for clients, into integrated rig systems with decent switching and buffers etc.
Standalone pedals are a relatively recent addition, allowing mere mortals to sample a bit of Cornish "mojo", while slightly missing the original point. (IMO)

So he used his reputation for something else to make regular pedals in his housing. As opposed to famous for making unique voiced or "better" pedals?

Hmmmm- the CC1 is utterly unique, and the G2 and P1 are absolute class leaders. I'd call that uniquely voiced. No-one's managed to succesfully clone them

Heartfeltdawn

p90fool said:

I'm very out of date with this stuff, so I'm sure you're correct - Pete Cornish doubtless has become an aspirational brand for those "in the know".

His reputation though (and therefore to an extent his prices) was still undoubtedly built on custom-built, almost military-style rigs and switching systems for touring pros. I still think it's a shame though when talking about value for money to lump a bespoke rig designer in with builders of crude, noisy dirtbox replicas which originally cost 19 shillings and sixpence.

They both have their place but in terms of the "are they a rip-off?" question they are completely different products for different markets IMO.

No doubt that his reputation was built on his rig and switching work but it's quite apparent that the bulk of his business now is not doing that kind of work. Back in the 1970s the average club guitarist didn't have a pedalboard the size of a pub table. Now even jerkoff amateurs like me can have a pedalboard that King Crimson would have died for in the 1970's. 

It's daft to talk of his products being for different markets when the amateur guitar wrangler is almost certainly his main market now. Guys like Gassage and many others from this forum are typical of his principal client base. God knows how TGP lawyers and dentists he's sold gear to now.

p90fool

Hymnal said:

When p90fool takes offence at someone making crude noisy dirtboxes for similar prices I have to laugh, a builder like D*A*M is the very best in that field, like PC is in his respective field therefore commands the best prices. 

You misunderstand me, I make crude, noisy dirtboxes for a living. DAM makes beautiful pedals, priced only 50% higher than the standard Colorsound range, and I know the care and attention that goes into them.

I don't mean to imply that they don't offer value for money, because they do, as do the standard pedals, I simply mean that a hand-crafted, standalone vintage-style pedal is more about perceived value, subjective things like tone and feel, whereas PC (at least initially) came to prominence through solving practical problems like noise, ergonomics and durability issues, in a quantifiable objective way, often built using existing pedals.

Both offer value in their own way, I'm just not sure that the OP is well served by lumping two completely contrasting ways of building effects together to examine their value-for-money simply because they're both expensive.

Apples and oranges, as they say on TGP.

Heartfeltdawn

RaymondLin said:

What gets me though is that all this supposed to be "touring grade" pedals and supposed to be "best" sound and I say best in quote because it's subjective. One would think you see his pedals littered all across boards on professionals. I find that to be complete contrary. Of all the boards I have seen on TGP and all the rig rundown on YouTube. Cornish pedals hardly ever show up, if at all.

Exactly. 'Best sound' is as meaningless a descriptor as 'creamy overdrive' or 'plays like butter'. My take on them from the ones I have used is that they are very hi-fi sounding, decidedly big, and lack the sort of grit and grimy shite sound that I like. You don't buy Cornish pedals to get the best sound, you buy them because you want their particular sound. 

The notion of 'pro' and 'amateur' gear is laughable. Boss is pro gear. The Maestro Fuzztone is pro gear.