Does anyone here NOT use delay?

NPP

GavHaus said:

I find the notion of "effects are cheating" an utter nonsense. They are tools with which to create. Michelangelo could do really rather pleasant charcoals, but give the Man some colours and he'll paint the shit out of a ceiling for you.

Glib I grant you, but I genuinely don't see much of a distinction. Playing guitar is about "creating" sound. Song writing should be creative. Why giving yourself a wider palette is frowned upon by some has baffled me for my entire guitar playing life. I love hearing a record that makes me question how the player has achieved a certain sound.

I would agree with that now, at least in principle. I still don't like, as a matter of personal taste and preference, any U2-type rhythm guitar delay, and still believe that most people who put delay on their lead tone use way too much of it. I do love, and have always loved, slap-back. 

My point was that when people began buying rack systems and digital pedals in the late 80s, some of them became utterly dependent on these devices; I briefly had a guitar teacher who impressed all his pupils with the big tone he got out of his rack, but when forced to play clean it was all plink-ploink-plink. I did not want to fall into that trap. When I talked about 'cheating' I referred primarily to my own practice; I wanted to be able to sound good without these aids before employing them, as you suggest, as tools. Hope that clarifies it!

ICBM

Ah! We do agree - I think I got the wrong idea from your first post .

Yes, I totally agree that *relying* on effects to make you sound good is a bad idea. Although contrary to very popular belief I don't think the Edge does - he doesn't use delay to make his tone fat, he uses it as a rhythmic device to make his parts more complex - he actually has a very full tone anyway, if you just listen to the individual notes or early U2 before he used so much delay - but plays more simply than it sounds, with the delay doubling the picking, if that makes sense. And it certainly isn't a crutch - it's much harder to do that properly than you would think, having heard many 'good' guitarists (at least one of who I know doesn't rate Edge at all) try and fail laughably.

I agree about practicing with no effects - especially with a clean or nearly-clean sound, or even unamplified. It gives you far more control of your tone and dynamics.

Teetonetal

One of the biggest pieces of advice I got given: never practice with anything that masks your sound, so no reverb, no delay. Practice sweeps and legato runs unplugged to not use volume as a crutch for poor technique 

Once down,  then practice sweeps, and legato at extreme high gain to highlight handling noise - find out what you are doing wrong and get rid of that noise. 

I found doing these things really made me a 'clean' player.

Record everything.

But, then once you have all that down - add effects, use them creatively, use them to enhance your already great tone. I agree, that U2 thing is not as easy to do (especially live) as people give him credit for... and it sounds HUGE!

 

meltedbuzzbox

but only bellends sweep :-P

*disclaimer - I used to do loads of it.(I had the same advice)

wordy

I couldnt really get on with delay for a long time.  I'd owned a Carbon Copy, Flashback, Nova Delay, VS H20, and delays on my G3.... but nothing really made me want to use one.  I much preferred a nice reverb.

Then a couple of months ago someone near me was selling a Empress Superdelay for a stupid price, so I figured what the hell, give that one a go.

I really like it.... I've A/B'ed it with my Carbon Copy and H20.... and I much prefer it.... especially the tape delay option.  I think the thing I like about it is, that it really still sounds like my guitar tone underneath.  It was a little bit like when I got a compressor with a blend pot.

I found with the Carbon Copy in particular, even on its lowest settings, its not that it sounds bad.... but I cant hear enough of my original tone behind the delayed signal.  I thought the H20 seemed better in that respect.... but both were considerably behind the Superdelay.... to my ears at least.

I'd really like to try to Empress Tape Delay now......

meltedbuzzbox

@Wordy

Superdelay Vinatge modified. 

all the features of the superdelay and the tape delay in one box :-)

JAYJO

using delay eg U2 Track Bad is ace. Its so simple and sounds great. There is a knack to playing half of what you hear. ie Where the streets.... with delay = half rhythm effort. I still cant nail it so i improvise best as i can cos i love the track.

wordy

meltedbuzzbox said:

all the features of the superdelay and the tape delay in one box :-)

muuusssst resisssst..... oooonly pidddddling beeeedrooom guitaaarissst
:-S

Sassafras

Ever since I first plugged into an old Watkins Copycat I've enjoyed messing about with delay but only at home. It can be quite an inspiring tool but I wouldn't subject anyone to my noodling around with great gobs of repeating lead lines.

One thing about delay that does annoy me is when it's used heavily for demoing OD or fuzz pedals, in fact anything that isn't a delay pedal.

hotpickups

I must admit I use it sparingly really. Reverb on all the time and delay for the solos to fill the sound out better. But then I like to keep it minimalist when I can

Teetonetal

meltedbuzzbox said:

but only bellends sweep :-P

*disclaimer - I used to do loads of it.(I had the same advice)

If only sweep picking came as naturally as being a bellend! I'd be awesome  

toescantalk

My current approach to delay is it's either off or very in-your-face on.

A bit of delay is like a sip of beer. And I'm a binge drinker.

lustycourtier

I have a Memory boy Deluxe and a BOSS Space echo. Both wonderful. I do however play in a wedding function pub Jam band, so variation is good.

Luminous

I love delay but mainly for the purposes of making my guitar sound more electronic, I very rarely use the delay for thickening ( unless it's in mixes ). A huge influence on my were the original dub guys and for them the delay and mixing board WERE the instruments. I would love a manufacturer to make a delay where the delay send level was controlled by an expression pedal.

I tend to use a lot of pitch shifted, panned and filtered delays or else none at all.

Gadget

I use delay :-)


If anyone is interested, I have a website dedicated to this unit at www.tc2290.com

Phil_aka_Pip

I use a DDL pedal set so that it gives me a reverb-ish kind of effect.

I have a Watkins Copicat, which I have used once on a recording, and there's a reverb tank in my AC30. I have found that used sparingly, all these FX have their uses. I have also found that on some songs it's better not to use them at all.

meltedbuzzbox

Teetonetal said:

meltedbuzzbox said:

but only bellends sweep :-P

*disclaimer - I used to do loads of it.(I had the same advice)

If only sweep picking came as naturally as being a bellend! I'd be awesome  

same as but swap sweeping for singing. I used to be alright at sweeping, especially on an Ibby with 9s

Branshen

I don't use delay with my jazz, and use it sparingly when I play blues. Fortunately, my DD7 doubles as a looper, so it gets used alot anyway.

PolarityMan

I rarely play clean without delay.

EricTheWeary

ICBM;523991" said:

Ah! We do agree - I think I got the wrong idea from your first post .

Yes, I totally agree that *relying* on effects to make you sound good is a bad idea. Although contrary to very popular belief I don't think the Edge does - he doesn't use delay to make his tone fat, he uses it as a rhythmic device to make his parts more complex - he actually has a very full tone anyway, if you just listen to the individual notes or early U2 before he used so much delay - but plays more simply than it sounds, with the delay doubling the picking, if that makes sense. And it certainly isn't a crutch - it's much harder to do that properly than you would think, having heard many 'good' guitarists (at least one of who I know doesn't rate Edge at all) try and fail laughably.

I agree about practicing with no effects - especially with a clean or nearly-clean sound, or even unamplified. It gives you far more control of your tone and dynamics.

U2 liked to build up the myth that they were some kind of street wise kids who could hardly play and got by on angst alone. Guitarists then added to this saying ' and you can tell they can't play cause look at all those effects he has to use.' Saying they were middle class kids and the Edge was a pretty competent young rock guitarist was not going to sell many records.
I'm not at all a U2 fan but from what I've seen on documentarys the Edge has a painstaking approach to nailing what he wants from the guitar.