The cricket thread

Heartfeltdawn

Stuckfast said:

Well I wasn't convinced about the structure of this year's County Championship / Bob Willis Trophy but I have to say it's delivered some really intriguing situations. I didn't anticipate Gloucester or Notts doing well, nor Essex falling to bits. Hampshire made a great start but now the wheels have well and truly come off. Absolute humdinger of a match between Yorks and Northants last week, gutted that we came away with only four points. Sussex are embarrassing.

Still Lancs or Somerset for the title, for me. Wonder if Craig Overton has done enough to get back into the Test reckoning.

I think we've been very lucky with the weather up to the last round and it has produced some cracking games. Gutted for Northants but what a game it was. 

On the Test front, I hope Cove doesn't get picked because Somerset need him. Ollie Robinson is the absolute man we need to get in there and test out. 

crunchman said:

Probably not at the moment.

Anderson and Broad will play, and they will want someone with a bit more pace like Archer, Wood, or Stone.

Not sure what they will do with Stokes out though.  They will want an allrounder from somewhere, but I don't think Overton's batting is quite good enough.

Archer ain't fit and Stone's got a dodgy toe so is 50-50. Woakes won't be match fit. Going by the words of Giles the other day, we will have some new faces in there. James Bracey and Robinson are the obvious two on county form and Robinson... 275 wickets in 64 FC games at 21 simply can't be ignored any longer. 

With Stokes gone, go for a bowling all-rounder. With the quality of NZ's batting, we're unlikely to bat them out of the game. If we're to win, it'll be through the bowlers. 

So a side? 

Burns
Bracey
Crawley
Root
Pope
Foakes
Woakes
Curran 
Wood/Stone
Robinson
Leach

Yep, I'd play neither of the old boys. We know what we're gonna get from them. Keep 'em for later in the summer. Right now it's time to make some other people attack leaders. Woakes and Robinson to open, Curran and Wood at either end offers a nice little mixture, Leach doing what he does. 

26.2

Heartfeltdawn said:

Stuckfast said:

Well I wasn't convinced about the structure of this year's County Championship / Bob Willis Trophy but I have to say it's delivered some really intriguing situations. I didn't anticipate Gloucester or Notts doing well, nor Essex falling to bits. Hampshire made a great start but now the wheels have well and truly come off. Absolute humdinger of a match between Yorks and Northants last week, gutted that we came away with only four points. Sussex are embarrassing.

Still Lancs or Somerset for the title, for me. Wonder if Craig Overton has done enough to get back into the Test reckoning.

I think we've been very lucky with the weather up to the last round and it has produced some cracking games. Gutted for Northants but what a game it was. 

On the Test front, I hope Cove doesn't get picked because Somerset need him. Ollie Robinson is the absolute man we need to get in there and test out. 

crunchman said:

Probably not at the moment.

Anderson and Broad will play, and they will want someone with a bit more pace like Archer, Wood, or Stone.

Not sure what they will do with Stokes out though.  They will want an allrounder from somewhere, but I don't think Overton's batting is quite good enough.

Archer ain't fit and Stone's got a dodgy toe so is 50-50. Woakes won't be match fit. Going by the words of Giles the other day, we will have some new faces in there. James Bracey and Robinson are the obvious two on county form and Robinson... 275 wickets in 64 FC games at 21 simply can't be ignored any longer. 

With Stokes gone, go for a bowling all-rounder. With the quality of NZ's batting, we're unlikely to bat them out of the game. If we're to win, it'll be through the bowlers. 

So a side? 

Burns
Bracey
Crawley
Root
Pope
Foakes
Woakes
Curran 
Wood/Stone
Robinson
Leach

Yep, I'd play neither of the old boys. We know what we're gonna get from them. Keep 'em for later in the summer. Right now it's time to make some other people attack leaders. Woakes and Robinson to open, Curran and Wood at either end offers a nice little mixture, Leach doing what he does. 

Lawrence? Did ok in India and has had a decent start to the season. Not sure how to squeeze him in, but you can argue that he is in possession and probably Bracey should drop out. Burns and Crawley to open. 

Overton/Robinson is a tough one. 

Stuckfast

England selection looks more open than it has for a while. Even Hameed could be in with a shout.

I doubt he'll get a look in at the moment as he's still coming back from injury, but Ben Coad at Yorkshire seems a fine bowler. And David Payne took a hatful of wickets in the last game bowling left-arm swing. Certainly looked better than Reece Topley.

I can't begin to imagine how bad Sussex will be if they lose Robinson though.

Heartfeltdawn

26.2 said:

Lawrence? Did ok in India and has had a decent start to the season. Not sure how to squeeze him in, but you can argue that he is in possession and probably Bracey should drop out. Burns and Crawley to open. 

Overton/Robinson is a tough one. 

Lawrence has time on his side. Middle order we have plenty of options. It's up top where we have the issues and Bracey has the mindset for the longer game, a good technique (way ahead of Sibley and Lawrence in my view), and his performance against Somerset earlier this season was quite superb = he has some runs in Australia with the Lions in the bank along with Lawrence. 

Crawley should be our number three and his county think so as well, hence him being there and not opening with Daniel Bell-Drummond. Obviously early days in his career but he averages 20 as an opener in 7 Tests and 59 in 5 Tests batting 3 downwards. 

Stuckfast said:

England selection looks more open than it has for a while. Even Hameed could be in with a shout.

I doubt he'll get a look in at the moment as he's still coming back from injury, but Ben Coad at Yorkshire seems a fine bowler. And David Payne took a hatful of wickets in the last game bowling left-arm swing. Certainly looked better than Reece Topley.

I can't begin to imagine how bad Sussex will be if they lose Robinson though.

Poor old Hasib. Tons in both innings the other week, loads of write ups, talk of England calling... you just knew he'd get a duck next time out. I don't think he's ready to come back to England but I do think he will be part of the touring party this winter. The likelihood is that we'll have a larger party than normal because of Covid bubbles so something similar to the 20 or so players India have picked for the WTC and England games. Certainly won't be like the bad old days where we'd go to Australia, get injuries, and practically play people who'd just landed. Graeme Hick got that one series, straight off the plane into the Test team on a zipper Perth track...



Coad's a good bowler for sure. Payne's finally getting the consistency together and is turning into an attack leader at last. 

Sussex really do look awful. Pull SVZ and Head out of that batting lineup and it looks very poor indeed, albeit with the success thus far of the two openers. The bowling... yeah. Robbo will be a huge loss for them. Spinner does look very useful though. 

26.2

Coad needs to find a yard or two, to quote the old cliche. Hassan needs a big season before he should be talked up again. Fingers crossed as I like him a lot. Might also be worth thinking about Sam Evans? 

If Crawley is a 3 that’s fine, as we need one. But a 3 needs to have an openers mindset and technique as you are often in early. 

But Bracey doesn’t open for Glou does he?

Heartfeltdawn

26.2 said:

Coad needs to find a yard or two, to quote the old cliche. Hassan needs a big season before he should be talked up again. Fingers crossed as I like him a lot. Might also be worth thinking about Sam Evans? 

If Crawley is a 3 that’s fine, as we need one. But a 3 needs to have an openers mindset and technique as you are often in early. 

But Bracey doesn’t open for Glou does he?

Bracey made his first class debut batting at 3 for Gloucestershire. None of this settle in at 6 approach that many sides do, just straight in there. He has opened for Gloucestershire and he opened last year at the Ageas Bowl for one of the warm up matches. He started the season opening with Chris Dent, century stand for their first knock together against Surrey, and had his standout match against Somerset batting at 3 the game after. I like the way he bats, it seems right for Test cricket.

3 has been a bogey spot for such a long time with us, perhaps even more so than the opening roles as even Root couldn't work it. Crawley got that big score against Pakistan at 3. Like Root, when someone gets a serious score or two in a certain role, stop changing the positions. 

Sam Evans is an interesting one as he's a bit of an unheralded bolter this year. I think the fact he's playing on one of the deadest wickets in the country will count against him a little bit but if he and Azad can really get the partnerships going, they'll be calling in the future for selection. 

Yes on Coad. He's in that early Woakes position, great county figures but doubts about pace at the top level.

earwighoney

Heartfeltdawn said:

Poor old Hasib. Tons in both innings the other week, loads of write ups, talk of England calling... you just knew he'd get a duck next time out. I don't think he's ready to come back to England but I do think he will be part of the touring party this winter.

I'm in agreement about Hameed, I think it's far too early for him to even be considered.

I'm getting the impression that a call up to international cricket is as much to do with having the right frame of mind as it is about technique/ability. There have been too many players who were called up before they should have done and ended up getting burnt out by it *cough cough Andy Flower*

Let Hameed do his own thing for Notts for a while, at one point it looked like he was going to leave cricket altogether.

Gassage

The only time Overton should be mentioned is in response to the question "Which cricketer's head most resembles a large baked potato?"

26.2

Crawley came in in the 4th over when he got 200. I’m prepared to believe that players have their favourite slots, but I think 1-3 demand an approach that is very similar, and v different from 4-6. 

crunchman

It does make sense to keep Crawley at 3.  It's been a problem position for a long time.

Given how underwhelming most of the recent openers have been, bringing Bracey in makes sense.  Assuming Sibley is not fit, then Burns is no worse than the other candidates.

Long term, we have to hope Hameed's comeback stays on course, but it's too early yet to bring him back.

scrumhalf

We should do what we used to do.

Find a good South African batsman with English parents/grandparents.

Heartfeltdawn

26.2 said:

Crawley came in in the 4th over when he got 200. I’m prepared to believe that players have their favourite slots, but I think 1-3 demand an approach that is very similar, and v different from 4-6. 

Back in the day I'd have agreed on the differences between top and middle order but that distinction has narrowed a great deal. The attacking instincts of a Jayasuriya, Gayle, Sehwag etc have more in common with a 5/6 batsman than a Kirsten or Cook.

Where we have failed in recent years is on the player development front at Test level. Great players don't always come in and secure their slot. The like of Hayden, Langer, and Damian Martyn all got dropped and came back as better players. They went and worked on technique and approach to the game and returned to become superb players. We haven't had that process for some time. Once players got dropped, that was pretty much it and the lack of development was one of the hallmarks of the Bayliss era. For all the gripes about Peter Moores, he could point to player development under him and I don't think it's coincidental that Haseeb Hamid has found a new lease of life at Notts with Moores as head coach.

Whether that development will happen with a truncated first class calendar is debatable. 



 

 

Stuckfast

scrumhalf said:

We should do what we used to do.

Find a good South African batsman with English parents/grandparents.

Ricardo Vasconcelos has had a decent start to the season...

Heartfeltdawn

Enjoying Archer and Robbo bowling for Sussex this morning. Tight from Ollie, Archer getting some good bounce especially the one to Crawley that he did well to nick behind. Looks like he's opened his action up a little, characteristically relaxed in run up and delivery but a little less compressed when he delivers. Fine opening spell. 

Stuckfast

Yes that ball to Crawley was a brute. I wasn't sure why he was so reluctant to walk off, it looked like a big nick and couldn't have been anything but bat.

What do you make of George Garton? I don't think I've seen him bowl before and not quite sure what all the hype is about. His tendency to fall away in the delivery stride looks like it might be an issue?

Heartfeltdawn

Stuckfast said:

Yes that ball to Crawley was a brute. I wasn't sure why he was so reluctant to walk off, it looked like a big nick and couldn't have been anything but bat.

What do you make of George Garton? I don't think I've seen him bowl before and not quite sure what all the hype is about. His tendency to fall away in the delivery stride looks like it might be an issue?

I think it was more disappointment than contending the dismissal. 

George does have some pace behind him. The last couple of years Sussex have tried to develop his batting a lot more. his action is quite unorthodox but he would fall into the camp of 'Change him at your peril', a bit like Anderson when Troy Cooley started tinkering. When we have so many orthodox cricketers in English cricket, having someone who can be erratic but also unplayable when he gets it right would be an asset. He and Sam Curran as left armers who can change games, score runs, good in the field, they'd be good to have in the selection possibilities. 

 

crunchman

Archer's elbow playing up again.  Out of the NZ tests and they are talking about surgery.

Bit worried that it could become chronic, or reduce his pace.

Heartfeltdawn

crunchman said:

Archer's elbow playing up again.  Out of the NZ tests and they are talking about surgery.

Bit worried that it could become chronic, or reduce his pace.

It's a worry and I wonder how much of it was down to the NZ tour where he took on the ever-stupid enforcer role. A decade ago those in charge a[t the time finally twigged what the average fan had known for a while, namely that Stuart Broad was being wasted by being stuck in the enforcer role. 

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/cricket/broad-silences-detractors-after-shaking-enforcer-tag-2342607.html

"To go away and play for Notts and get a five-for pitching the ball up a week before the Test gave me a lot of confidence," he said. "That was how I wanted to bowl in this series but then for it to happen straight away at Lord's, to pick up four wickets and could have potentially had more, that length showed me the way to go."

Archer didn't make his name in county cricket by being the enforcer. Sharp pace, a bit of bounce. That wicket of Crawley last week is Archer through and through in FC cricket. Tall chap, mid to high 80's mph, moves it about off the seam, has a definite quicker one in him, good bouncer, and accurate too. It's one of his attributes seldom talked about but it should be. Not many quicks at his age in England have the control he does. It might sound laughable to some but the guy could do for us in Test cricket what McGrath did because their method of attack isn't that different. Consider these stats after 13 Tests for both guys.  

 42 wickets at 31.04, SR of 62.1, economy rate of 2.99, 3x 5 wicket hauls.

42 wickets at 31.59, SR of 68.6, economy rate of 2.76, 2x 5 wicket hauls. 

Archer is the one above. Not bad company to be keeping. McGrath's cumulative stats are well worth looking at. 

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/6565.html?class=1;template=results;type=bowling;view=cumulative

After his 13th Test in 1995, he came back and you can see the improvement from there. You look at his figures after 8 Tests (19 wickets at 43) and they're unimpressive. Australia saw something in him, allowed him the time to develop, and they were hugely rewarded. When the Test selection news came out and talk was of rotation in the future, I hope to god the like of Overton and Robinson are not rotated. Young guys like that need time to bed into the side. It's why I wouldn't pick both Anderson and Broad for the side. Everyone knows the prize is in the winter, not now. 

Stuckfast

Do you think Overton and Robinson have the pace to be successful in the Ashes? I seem to remember Overton wasn't a huge threat last time around but maybe he's put on a yard or two. I'm sure they will want to play at least one of Archer, Stone and Wood in every Ashes Test though.

I was quite impressed by Ethan Bamber in the Middlesex-Hampshire game. He seemed to be bowling at good pace and was very unlucky -- bowled a lot of absolute jaffas that were just too good to get the edge.

crunchman

Overton is tall.  He's likely to generate a bit of bounce on Australian pitches.

He will also reinforce the lower order batting a bit.  You have to pick bowlers primarily on their bowling, but batting is a consideration as well.  We can't go back to the days of Alan Mullally batting at 9, followed by Tufnell and Giddins if you are wondering how we found two players worse with the bat than Mullally.