The cricket thread

sev112

All 4 results as my wife just said to me

Stuckfast

I can't remember another Test attack that has used in-swing to the same extent as this Indian bowling line-up. Both Siraj and Sharma bowl the in-swinger as a stock ball, and Shami and Bumrah both have a decent in-swinger too. Maybe my memory is faulty, but I can't remember many right-arm bowlers from the 80s onwards who have been primarily in-swing merchants. 

Stuckfast

Hopefully there's room in that taxi for Sam Curran?

Funkfingers

Joe Root needs to consider his position. 

ArchtopDave

Nervous nineties and 3 wickets left!

scrumhalf

They do know that this isn't a one-day game, don't they?

scrumhalf

Assuming they can actually bat that long, if play goes on until 6:30 can India still claim the extra half hour? 

Stuckfast

Funkfingers said:

Joe Root needs to consider his position. 

Who would replace him though? There's literally no-one else in that side who is an automatic pick except Anderson. A captain needs at the very least to be secure of their place.

crunchman

Stuckfast said:

Funkfingers said:

Joe Root needs to consider his position. 

Who would replace him though? There's literally no-one else in that side who is an automatic pick except Anderson. A captain needs at the very least to be secure of their place.

Unlike some previous England captains the captaincy doesn't seem to be having a negative effect on his batting either.  I don't think there is any alternative at the moment.

scrumhalf

  

Heartfeltdawn

crunchman said:

Unlike some previous England captains the captaincy doesn't seem to be having a negative effect on his batting either.  I don't think there is any alternative at the moment.

Yeah. He's not a good captain in the field and today's reiterated that but there is nobody else. Folk were talking about Rory Burns having captaincy potential and it feels like a yardstick of how bad we are now without Stokes in the side to offer some seniority. Burns looks secure in his place despite averaging 31 after 27 Tests. Crawley's out averaging 27 after 15 Tests, Sibley now averages 28.94 after 22 Tests... it's desperate. Are we really at the stage now where averaging over 30 means your place is secure? Quite possibly, yes. 

Two all-rounders in the side? Combined match figures:

84 overs, 4 for 251. 
40 runs in 4 complete innings. 

Curran's had a 'mare. Moeen's bowled alright, Root's drop at slip was poor this morning, but overall has he justified a place ahead of Leach? Not really. 

sev112

India bowled extremely well - all of them . I found that very good to watch.  And really good to see how much it meant to them

Heartfeltdawn

Stuckfast said:

I can't remember another Test attack that has used in-swing to the same extent as this Indian bowling line-up. Both Siraj and Sharma bowl the in-swinger as a stock ball, and Shami and Bumrah both have a decent in-swinger too. Maybe my memory is faulty, but I can't remember many right-arm bowlers from the 80s onwards who have been primarily in-swing merchants. 

You'd have to look to Pakistan. Waqar, Aaqib Javed, Imran, Mohammed Asif... inswing was their stock swinging delivery. Asif was the best at bowling both types. What a career he should have had. 

The return to popularity for in-swing is interesting. It really was out of favour for quite some time. I would put it down to DRS. Inswing increases the chances of hitting the pads, umpires are more likely to give out people on the front foot than 20 years ago, and you've got a chance with a referral. 

guitars4you

You forget that there was actually 3 good days for us in the test - First day was not good but not a disaster - But today was just poor after the first 20 mins or so - When  Pant was out there was hope at that stage of a win for us - So how can it go so badly so quickly - Don't need to answer 

If there is/was one think wrong then you can look at that and adjust as required - But so many thinks wrong you can't see a quick fix, based on options available and time available 

The whole team/squad selection has not made sense for a while - Ali not required, so bring in Leach + Bess into the squad - Neither played this summer , so without doing anything wrong, both are pushed back to allow Ali to come back - Last summer Crawley was the new hope and without much chance to play red ball cricket this summer, he is now dropped, for an opener to come in at 3 - Can go on, but nothing is logical - No quick fix with 3 tests left then the big tour 

sev112

Ok gurus - batting line up for next test ?

crunchman

sev112 said:

Ok gurus - batting line up for next test ?

Not many options.  I think you have to drop Sibley.  Malan would probably be the best option to bring in with Hameed moving up to open, which is his natural position.

If Foakes was fit, I'd play him at 7 and just pick our best four bowlers with Root to back them up, rather than faff around with the likes of Moeen and Curran, neither of whom are anywhere near good enough to bat at 7.  It would upgrade the keeping significantly as well.  As he's not fit, we may have to stick with Curran.

The problem is that we just aren't producing top order batsmen.  All the talented players with a good eye are being turned into pyjama cricket sloggers.  There is no quick fix.  There may never be a fix without major changes at the ECB.

Stuckfast

Sibley and Curran have to go IMO. Hameed looked like a rabbit in the headlights but now that we've brought him back he deserves a run in the side, and he should definitely open rather than bat 3. I'd keep faith with Bairstow for want of obvious alternatives. I thought Moeen was pretty good in this Test. He bowled very well and looked in decent touch with the bat -- it took a really good ball to get him out in the second dig.

Trouble is, who are you going to bring in to number 3 when no-one has been playing red ball cricket lately? I'd like to see Alex Davies given a go but not sure it's fair to suddenly drop an uncapped player into such a high pressure situation. In which case maybe Denly?

Woakes for Curran is an obvious replacement if fit, though again the lack of match practice has to be an issue.

If Foakes isn't fit then I don't see any obvious challengers to Buttler's place, unless you want to give the gloves to Bairstow.

So for me:

Burns

Hameed

Davies / Denly

Root

Bairstow

Buttler

Woakes

Moeen

Robinson

Wood / Overton / Mahmood

Anderson

Heartfeltdawn

guitars4you said:

You forget that there was actually 3 good days for us in the test - First day was not good but not a disaster - But today was just poor after the first 20 mins or so - When  Pant was out there was hope at that stage of a win for us - So how can it go so badly so quickly - Don't need to answer 

If there is/was one think wrong then you can look at that and adjust as required - But so many thinks wrong you can't see a quick fix, based on options available and time available 

The whole team/squad selection has not made sense for a while - Ali not required, so bring in Leach + Bess into the squad - Neither played this summer , so without doing anything wrong, both are pushed back to allow Ali to come back - Last summer Crawley was the new hope and without much chance to play red ball cricket this summer, he is now dropped, for an opener to come in at 3 - Can go on, but nothing is logical - No quick fix with 3 tests left then the big tour 

I didn't forget. I just don't think we had three good days. 

Day 1 - India take it (276/3). 
Day 2 - honours even. We bowled them out for lower than expected, they've got us three down for 
Day 3 - England take the credit for the lead but I'd say it's a monumental individual performance that covers over another poor team performance on a day when batting was at its easiest all Test. This is why that Bumrah over to Anderson matters. It gave India something to spark about at the end of a long day. 
Day 4 - at the end of the day with India 186 for 6, you'd say England have won but the pitch has changed. The turn is there, the bounce is a bit more up and down. Credit to Rahane and Pujara for grinding it out. Pretty much honours even.
Day 5 - we've had a near-perfect start and we've given away that advantage. We then get blown away by a fantastic pace attack. Chap on Sky was saying India have found a superstar: nah. They found him some time ago. He looked the part in Australia and this is just continuing on from that. 

We failed today because we were outpsyched by that Bumrah over and we've been dismissed and swing and seam, the very approach we gave up on this morning. 

scrumhalf

The strap line above the report on yesterday's play in The Times this morning was seomthing like "England hold the upper hand..."

Good job we weren't up against it or we might have been shat on today. Oh, hang on a minute.

The ECB are no doubt indifferent to this because we won the ODI world cup and are in with a shout for the T20 one. The 100 abomination is apparently pulling the crowds in as well. The cynic in me thinks that it is a step along the path to the abolition of the counties and a shift to eiothgt-team franchise cricket for almost everything.

The Aussies must be pissing themselves at the thought of a competitive Ashes series, if it goes ahead.

JanekLubanski

The match was there for the taking at start of play on the last day. England had a bit of a brain freeze regarding basic tactics. Like 4 fielders  on the boundary and no slips for the Indian tailenders. A decent start from the England openers would have been nice. (Both Burns and Sibley can be replaced for me like....but the selectors will be more conservative and only replace Sibley). I like Curran but his double ducks were just unlucky. Not sure about the guy batting at three (Hameed). Rabbits and headlights spring to mind. And I reckon Wood is crocked....or certainly diminished in the bowling shoulder department.

Fixt these issues and we might win the next test.