Line 6 Helix

Voxman

gibsongretschfan said:

Voxman said:

Prices are definitely on the way down. PMT & Andertons are both selling the Full Helix for £1,037 - I don't think it will be too long before we see it break below the £1,000 barrier.  And the Helix LT has dropped to £777 in most retailers.  If the (ever) forthcoming Headrush is finally released, it just won't survive at the pre-order price of £899 - it will have to be below the LT price (say £749) to have a chance of gaining any reasonable number of customers.  

Line 6 will readjust the price as he pound climbs. It's on the way up after BOE let slip about upcoming rate rises

Possibly, & I suspect you probably meant to say likely to go up - but it doesn't appear to be on the way up yet (quite the reverse in fact). But the other factor is development cost and profitability.  Helix has been a big success for Line 6 and its developmental costs have likely been well covered already. So it's possible Line 6 will have scope to ease its pricing and open up sales to potential customers for whom current pricing might still be a little out of reach. If Headrush is launched at £899 and if it's targeting full Helix rather than LT, we could see Line 6 respond with a downward pricing model initially to compensate for currency fluctuations but also because it could be a cost effective tactic 'now' to reduce Headrush sales in an attempt to block them gaining a market foot hold.  Headrush has to recover its development costs - assuming Line 6 already has, by lowering Helix & LT costs now its could price Headrush out the market almost before it gets started. 

gibsongretschfan

Voxman said:

gibsongretschfan said:

Voxman said:

Prices are definitely on the way down. PMT & Andertons are both selling the Full Helix for £1,037 - I don't think it will be too long before we see it break below the £1,000 barrier.  And the Helix LT has dropped to £777 in most retailers.  If the (ever) forthcoming Headrush is finally released, it just won't survive at the pre-order price of £899 - it will have to be below the LT price (say £749) to have a chance of gaining any reasonable number of customers.  

Line 6 will readjust the price as he pound climbs. It's on the way up after BOE let slip about upcoming rate rises

Possibly, & I suspect you probably meant to say likely to go up - but it doesn't appear to be on the way up yet (quite the reverse in fact). But the other factor is development cost and profitability.  Helix has been a big success for Line 6 and its developmental costs have likely been well covered already. So it's possible Line 6 will have scope to ease its pricing and open up sales to potential customers for whom current pricing might still be a little out of reach. If Headrush is launched at £899 and if it's targeting full Helix rather than LT, we could see Line 6 respond with a downward pricing model initially to compensate for currency fluctuations but also because it could be a cost effective tactic 'now' to reduce Headrush sales in an attempt to block them gaining a market foot hold.  Headrush has to recover its development costs - assuming Line 6 already has, by lowering Helix & LT costs now its could price Headrush out the market almost before it gets started. 

No it's definitely went up since the low point st the end of last year. It was back up to about £1.34 to the dollar at one point... which was a sight better than what it was when I was changing currency around February time

Voxman

gibsongretschfan said:

Voxman said:

gibsongretschfan said:

Voxman said:

Prices are definitely on the way down. PMT & Andertons are both selling the Full Helix for £1,037 - I don't think it will be too long before we see it break below the £1,000 barrier.  And the Helix LT has dropped to £777 in most retailers.  If the (ever) forthcoming Headrush is finally released, it just won't survive at the pre-order price of £899 - it will have to be below the LT price (say £749) to have a chance of gaining any reasonable number of customers.  

Line 6 will readjust the price as he pound climbs. It's on the way up after BOE let slip about upcoming rate rises

Possibly, & I suspect you probably meant to say likely to go up - but it doesn't appear to be on the way up yet (quite the reverse in fact). But the other factor is development cost and profitability.  Helix has been a big success for Line 6 and its developmental costs have likely been well covered already. So it's possible Line 6 will have scope to ease its pricing and open up sales to potential customers for whom current pricing might still be a little out of reach. If Headrush is launched at £899 and if it's targeting full Helix rather than LT, we could see Line 6 respond with a downward pricing model initially to compensate for currency fluctuations but also because it could be a cost effective tactic 'now' to reduce Headrush sales in an attempt to block them gaining a market foot hold.  Headrush has to recover its development costs - assuming Line 6 already has, by lowering Helix & LT costs now its could price Headrush out the market almost before it gets started. 

No it's definitely went up since the low point st the end of last year. It was back up to about £1.34 to the dollar at one point... which was a sight better than what it was when I was changing currency around February time

Misunderstanding I think...you're talking currency movement, I'm referring to Helix UK price. 

longshins

Digital_Igloo said:

longshins said:

Can the pitch change with the guitar volume pot like on the real thing? Paul did it with a knob on the Helix in the vid I think.

That's one of the things no modeler can do, as you need some sort of analog impedance sensing circuit. We have an analog impedance switcher (as does AxeFX, AX8, Kemper, Eleven Rack, and POD HD500X), but that's different.

The Fuzz Factory is incredible, but it's a quirky beast. We almost didn't model it, because it's impossible to nail its sensitivity to impedance from your guitar's volume knob.

Didn't watch the video—maybe Paul was playing a Variax? You can assign pretty much as many parameters as you like to its volume and tone knobs.

Interesting, thanks for that... so if the Helix can't read the impedance from the volume knob I'm guessing that must have some sort of an effect on the 'realness' of all the models with regards to dynamics from your guitar/playing? Or have I got that wrong lol

sweepy

The Helix, like the Axe-Fx definitely does react to your guitar's volume control, cleaning up etc as you back off, if this is what you meant ?

UnclePsychosis

longshins said:

Digital_Igloo said:

longshins said:

Can the pitch change with the guitar volume pot like on the real thing? Paul did it with a knob on the Helix in the vid I think.

That's one of the things no modeler can do, as you need some sort of analog impedance sensing circuit. We have an analog impedance switcher (as does AxeFX, AX8, Kemper, Eleven Rack, and POD HD500X), but that's different.

The Fuzz Factory is incredible, but it's a quirky beast. We almost didn't model it, because it's impossible to nail its sensitivity to impedance from your guitar's volume knob.

Didn't watch the video—maybe Paul was playing a Variax? You can assign pretty much as many parameters as you like to its volume and tone knobs.

Interesting, thanks for that... so if the Helix can't read the impedance from the volume knob I'm guessing that must have some sort of an effect on the 'realness' of all the models with regards to dynamics from your guitar/playing? Or have I got that wrong lol

Its different things. Modelling sensitivity to input dynamics is a thing that decent modellers (like Helix) can already do pretty well. Impedance is not the same thing: its much harder (if not impossible) to model.

VJIves

My LT is being returned. The digital dream is over. Now I shall return to the inconvenience and expense of individual pedals having learned a valuable lesson about what a luddite I am.

Digital_Igloo

UnclePsychosis said:

longshins said:
Interesting, thanks for that... so if the Helix can't read the impedance from the volume knob I'm guessing that must have some sort of an effect on the 'realness' of all the models with regards to dynamics from your guitar/playing? Or have I got that wrong lol

Its different things. Modelling sensitivity to input dynamics is a thing that decent modellers (like Helix) can already do pretty well. Impedance is not the same thing: its much harder (if not impossible) to model.

I'm not sure how one would model impedance digitally. To do it right, you'd need an actual analog impedance-sensing circuit that sends data to the DSP. Then each model would need to be updated to respond accordingly.

John_A

VJIves said:

My LT is being returned. The digital dream is over. Now I shall return to the inconvenience and expense of individual pedals having learned a valuable lesson about what a luddite I am.

Can I ask why?  I pulled out all my remaining pedals out and set up a valve amp today for the first time in 6 months, they'll all be in the for sale thread as soon as I can be bothered, I don't need or use the power of the Helix, but it sounds better than my amp and is way more convenient.

VJIves

John_A said:

VJIves said:

My LT is being returned. The digital dream is over. Now I shall return to the inconvenience and expense of individual pedals having learned a valuable lesson about what a luddite I am.

Can I ask why?  I pulled out all my remaining pedals out and set up a valve amp today for the first time in 6 months, they'll all be in the for sale thread as soon as I can be bothered, I don't need or use the power of the Helix, but it sounds better than my amp and is way more convenient.

I just didn't gel with it, I spent the best part of three weeks sorting out my presets and snapshots, but I didn't get any pleasure out of it. I found it quite fiddly, and I really hated how sensitive the switches were. I'd often graze something with my hand and then fuck up a parameter I'd just finished adjusting. In terms of convenience I'll probably get a Neunaber Iconoclast (or equivalent) to negate an amp, and then all I'm carrying around is two mediums boards and a guitar which isn't a huge cross to bear. 

robinbowes

VJIves said:

John_A said:

VJIves said:

My LT is being returned. The digital dream is over. Now I shall return to the inconvenience and expense of individual pedals having learned a valuable lesson about what a luddite I am.

Can I ask why?  I pulled out all my remaining pedals out and set up a valve amp today for the first time in 6 months, they'll all be in the for sale thread as soon as I can be bothered, I don't need or use the power of the Helix, but it sounds better than my amp and is way more convenient.

I just didn't gel with it, I spent the best part of three weeks sorting out my presets and snapshots, but I didn't get any pleasure out of it. I found it quite fiddly, and I really hated how sensitive the switches were. I'd often graze something with my hand and then fuck up a parameter I'd just finished adjusting. In terms of convenience I'll probably get a Neunaber Iconoclast (or equivalent) to negate an amp, and then all I'm carrying around is two mediums boards and a guitar which isn't a huge cross to bear. 

I guess you need to approach these things in the right frame of mind.

I was quite clear what I wanted - pre-set sounds in a convenient package. And I use the computer app to do my editing (as I do with my H9) - it's much easier.

I'm really happy with mine.

R.

sweepy

The Helix, even the Full fat version really is excellent vfm, it all comes down to what you want from a piece of kit

Vaiai

I'm hoping to get an Alto TS212 to use with the Helix - I can't afford the Yamaha DXR but wondered what the opinion is of the Altos as a starting point - currently I still use the Helix with my amp in 4CM but really keen to just use the Helix and the FRFR.

Opinions? Experiences with the Altos?

John_A

I had an Alto TS110, and it was really good, the DXR 10 is a lot louder and has more thump, but the Alto wasn't bad at all and easily loud enough for rock band rehearsals, I'm now only using the DXR as an on stage monitor, with the main outs going to the PA, the Alto would have been more than good enough for that

neilg

On a related note to the question above about speakers, can somebody recommend something for home use with the helix?

John_A

neilg said:

On a related note to the question above about speakers, can somebody recommend something for home use with the helix?

There's a million options depending on budget, how loud you play at home etc.  I normally use a pair of studio monitors, but if you want the thump of a guitar cab you need some pretty big ones

FarleyUK

Vaiai said:

I'm hoping to get an Alto TS212 to use with the Helix - I can't afford the Yamaha DXR but wondered what the opinion is of the Altos as a starting point - currently I still use the Helix with my amp in 4CM but really keen to just use the Helix and the FRFR.

Opinions? Experiences with the Altos?

I run a pair of TS210s in stereo - very good speakers for the money. I sold my QSC K10 and pretty much got the pair for the same money.

I would suggest the 210s instead of the 212s, as I understand the 212s have a lot of boominess to them (the 210s are quite boomy anyhow, but just use a low cut on the cab block to reduce it).

Playing 2 gigs this weekend, and will be using my new Jubilee 2525h amp and 2x12 with the TS210s in a W/D/W config. Sounds bloody fantastic at home, so should be interesting live.

Sporky

John_A said:

neilg said:

On a related note to the question above about speakers, can somebody recommend something for home use with the helix?

There's a million options depending on budget, how loud you play at home etc.  I normally use a pair of studio monitors, but if you want the thump of a guitar cab you need some pretty big ones

All true.

I have a pair of Presonus E8s that sound quite spiffy with the Helix. They'd need a sub to get the thump though.

gibsongretschfan

So last week I was complaining about the monitor sound I had coming to me from a mic'd up cabinet at a function gig I was depping at.

This week for the return leg I decided just to take Helix and control things myself.

i had the exact same problems as I had the week before. In fact I had pretty much the exact same sound. I started to think it must be the monitor as no amount of eq from myself or the engineer could remedy the situation.

For the second half I decided to switch guitars and more importantly I changed IR's.

Problem GONE.

The IR I had been using previously was of a V30 speaker, the same speaker as was used in the cabinet the week before. Both have me the exact same awful foldback and problems through the monitor. I changed to a Greenback 4x12 IR and all was resolved.

The point being is that Helix and the IR I was using was so life like that it gave me the exact same shit sound as I was having through a real amp with the same speaker the week before.

Impressive :')

peteri

I've got a LT, arrived yesterday and I'm 'this' close at returning it.

Happy with it as a headphone practice tool, sounds good - but I also want to use it as a small pedal board (my main G2 one weighs a ton).

Just back from a rehearsal studio, getting an amazing sound out of my main board into a Blackstar amp set clean, small pedal board the same.

Just not the same with the Helix - clean (just a touch of reverb) sounded ok, as did the OCD based drive sound - but the higher gain sounds just not in the same park.

I tried using both pedals and pre-amps - got closest using full on amp models (i.e. not just preamp) - but that sounded slightly 'veiled' - two amps together I guess? (since I'm into the front of an amp).

Before I pack it up - someone tell me there's a magic setting or something! I've just spent three hours trying to get it.

Thanks!