Line 6 Helix

hugbot

True worst case scenario would be a hardware issue in all first batch units rather than software.

Teetonetal

guitargeek62;822115" said:

This is (unfortunately) expected with anything using complex software though to be fair. Pre-release testing is very difficult to test comprehensively, so once the product is in the wild the likelihood of bugs being identified multiplies exponentially. That one little glitch that never showed up again can come back and bite you in the ass.


I did mention in my "first thoughts" post some 15-30 pages back that I managed to freeze up Paul's unit, though that only necessitated a power cycle restart - not a factory reset. I haven't lost faith in any of this yet, but I do find it funny that people expect bleeding edge tech to be 100% perfect out of the box - please name the last piece of electonics (of equivalent complexity) that was flawless from day one?

The issue isn't really that flaws exist.. it's the nature of them. This one is literally a show stopper! Until line 6 issue an update I don't think anyone could actually gig with this unit without a backup plan.

welshboyo

You'd expect something 6 years in the making to be a bit more stable....flaws expected yes, but lock ups!! Come on, surely that has been seen in testing...why oh why......

John_A

It's not the end of the world, if there's an issue they will fix it PDQ I would imagine.

Fortheloveofguitar

The Tyler variax models suffered the same fate.

First batch shipped with glitching firmware and that set the trend throughout 'all' its future firmware updates.

The next one would cure a previous issue but then in turn brought a new glitch with it.

You were always chasing your tail with it, having to decide what glitches you could live with and then settle on a firmware number.

Was a complete joke having had this across 3 different guitar models.

Plus my HD400 and 500 would glitch and freeze during gigs every now and then.

This is one reason why I decided against the Helix. I don't trust Line 6 reliability and there lack of commitment to keeping on top of these sort of issues.

fretmeister

Mmm this is reminding me of the G70 relay launch - there were loads of drop outs until there was a firm wear update.

The early review put a lot of people off. 

Strat_a_tat_tat

@fretmeister. I hadn't realised there'd been issues with the G70.  I have a G30 and a G50 that have never suffered from any glitches - so I guess I was lucky with those two models (or maybe it's because I didn't buy until a long time after the launch).

Heartfeltdawn

ElectroDan said:I can't believe after all the time and effort they have put into the Helix they would let it go out with a problem like this. If so many people have reported it so soon after release, then how did the testers not notice it? A good reputation is so easy to lose. It could be costly for Line 6. It's a shame.

It's not that much of a surprise. When a new audio interface of piece of audio software comes out onto the market, chances are that bugs will be found. A piece of hardware like this will have pretty complex software. We all use software which have loads of patches. 

digitalscream said:

Exactly - look at Bugera. They had one design flaw in the first batch of amps they put out which resulted in some overheating, and now the web's full of (99% bullshit) stories of the world and his dog seeing them melt down, burst into flames and eat the owner's first-born.

Bugera got the bad rep because of the Behringer connection. People piled on with the 'Behringer produce shite SHOCK' bandwagon. Fender managed to fuck up the v1 Mustangs with some shitty power amps and got away with it by issuing the v2 Mustangs. No forum pitchfork moments. In the case of Line 6, if it is software then one firmware update could solve it. 

digitalscream

Heartfeltdawn said:

digitalscream said:

Exactly - look at Bugera. They had one design flaw in the first batch of amps they put out which resulted in some overheating, and now the web's full of (99% bullshit) stories of the world and his dog seeing them melt down, burst into flames and eat the owner's first-born.

Bugera got the bad rep because of the Behringer connection. People piled on with the 'Behringer produce shite SHOCK' bandwagon. Fender managed to fuck up the v1 Mustangs with some shitty power amps and got away with it by issuing the v2 Mustangs. No forum pitchfork moments. In the case of Line 6, if it is software then one firmware update could solve it. 

Well, it wasn't just because of the Behringer connection - it's just that the connection had (some) people eagerly waiting for them to fail. I'd hazard a guess that quite a lot of those very same people are waiting for Line 6 to fail - have a look at TGP and the Fractal forums for a bit of a flavour of that.

Even if they're not in the majority, they do shout the loudest, and it makes no difference that the problem's easily fixed with a firmware update; they'll still be shouting the loudest, and they'll continue to insist that you can't trust the Helix even long after all evidence has conclusively proven that you can.

That is how the problem is the same. It's not a product reliability issue (once they've found and fixed the problem, at least). It's fighting a PR battle against the morons in the guitarist community who'll cling on to any slight failure in somebody else's gear as though their lives depend on it.

John_P

Let's hope it is an issue that can be fixed with a software update.     I can picture a hardware issue - perhaps something overheating that causes it to crash.      I remember the failing footswitches on the X3live and they modified the design and cured it but took a while to filter through.   Must be a big worry to the people who bought a helix and wanted to gig with it while they wait for news from L6. 

Heartfeltdawn

digitalscream said: 

Well, it wasn't just because of the Behringer connection - it's just that the connection had (some) people eagerly waiting for them to fail. I'd hazard a guess that quite a lot of those very same people are waiting for Line 6 to fail - have a look at TGP and the Fractal forums for a bit of a flavour of that.

Even if they're not in the majority, they do shout the loudest, and it makes no difference that the problem's easily fixed with a firmware update; they'll still be shouting the loudest, and they'll continue to insist that you can't trust the Helix even long after all evidence has conclusively proven that you can.

That is how the problem is the same. It's not a product reliability issue (once they've found and fixed the problem, at least). It's fighting a PR battle against the morons in the guitarist community who'll cling on to any slight failure in somebody else's gear as though their lives depend on it.

I quite agree. That PR battle will be hard to win. 

Strat_a_tat_tat

digitalscream said:

Well, it wasn't just because of the Behringer connection - it's just that the connection had (some) people eagerly waiting for them to fail. I'd hazard a guess that quite a lot of those very same people are waiting for Line 6 to fail - have a look at TGP and the Fractal forums for a bit of a flavour of that.

Even if they're not in the majority, they do shout the loudest, and it makes no difference that the problem's easily fixed with a firmware update; they'll still be shouting the loudest, and they'll continue to insist that you can't trust the Helix even long after all evidence has conclusively proven that you can.

That is how the problem is the same. It's not a product reliability issue (once they've found and fixed the problem, at least). It's fighting a PR battle against the morons in the guitarist community who'll cling on to any slight failure in somebody else's gear as though their lives depend on it.

All good points... and to add to that, I guess 'fear of the unknown' will leave some users wondering if there's some other nasty glitch waiting to reveal itself under a specific combination of circumstances. It could take quite a while of glitch-free operation before some start to put more trust in the device.

Hope L6 sort it mega-rapidly - before the issue has a chance to become the defining image of the product.

Drew_TNBD

Being in QA I've seen this kind of thing happen. It's usually a software issue, and can be resolved with a firmware update.

It usually takes about 2 days for us to run through all our systems tests and regression tests before a build can go out to our beta team. I'd imagine Line 6 are already on top of these issues.

PFAllen2

guitargeek62 said:

- please name the last piece of electonics (of equivalent complexity) that was flawless from day one?

My VW 2.0 litre diesel was ........ never mind.

guitargeek62

Just spoke to Andertons - they're still expecting them to arrive to them tomorrow and then should have them processed and back out the door within 24-hours for next working day delivery. I'm definitely in their first batch of 20, so fingers crossed I'll have it here shortly.

Typically I've got friends staying here for a long weekend, so I probably won't have much chance to play until next week anyway!!!!

welshboyo

There's now a spare with PMT too.....

Just can't risk having something go down/freeze on a gig, I know its going to be sorted in a firmware, but just can't see myself being 100% happy with it at a gig..

I hope it will turn out OK for Line 6 and more importantly for those of you who have purchased.

As of this afternoon I have gone FX8....and it will be here before the week is out....and it works............................hopefully

Clarky

PFAllen2 said:

guitargeek62 said:

- please name the last piece of electonics (of equivalent complexity) that was flawless from day one?

My VW 2.0 litre diesel was ........ never mind.

I never encountered any issues with the VG-99 or Digitech 2120 from day 1

I guess that don't mean there weren't any.. I just never noticed any issues myself..

DavusPG

welshboyo;823372" said:

There's now a spare with PMT too.....

Just can't risk having something go down/freeze on a gig, I know its going to be sorted in a firmware, but just can't see myself being 100% happy with it at a gig..

I hope it will turn out OK for Line 6 and more importantly for those of you who have purchased.

As of this afternoon I have gone FX8....and it will be here before the week is out....and it works............................hopefully

If you would be so good as to post your thoughts of the FX8 Once you get to grips with it I would be very keen to hear.
Cheers

guitargeek62

So my Helix is en route (to me). B-)

lewisjenkins

Where from? Andertons?