The Rugby Union Thread

MagicPigDetective

sev112 said:

VimFuego said:

wow, a great day for the Northern hemisphere. 

What a great days rugby whoever you supported, 4 great games and all pretty close

Agreed. Superb day of rugby. 

exocet

If NZ were to play England next week, I’m pretty sure they’d be beaten. NZ haven’t lost two games on the bounce for 10 years? France we’re very good tonight.

MagicPigDetective

Can the autumn internationals be a true measure of where teams are at though? The southern hem. teams are at the end of their season and mentally and physically drained. For the northern hem these are the first internationals of the season…… I mean, Wales never play great in the autumn internationals… they save the big performances for the six nations or world cup. 

Regardless of that, it’s been supremely entertaining and long may it continue. 

VimFuego

MagicPigDetective said:

Can the autumn internationals be a true measure of where teams are at though? The southern hem. teams are at the end of their season and mentally and physically drained. For the northern hem these are the first internationals of the season…… I mean, Wales never play great in the autumn internationals… they save the big performances for the six nations or world cup. 

Regardless of that, it’s been supremely entertaining and long may it continue. 

it's played at the same time as the world cup, so if you ain't ready to play at this time of year, go home.

MagicPigDetective

VimFuego said:

MagicPigDetective said:

Can the autumn internationals be a true measure of where teams are at though? The southern hem. teams are at the end of their season and mentally and physically drained. For the northern hem these are the first internationals of the season…… I mean, Wales never play great in the autumn internationals… they save the big performances for the six nations or world cup. 

Regardless of that, it’s been supremely entertaining and long may it continue. 

it's played at the same time as the world cup, so if you ain't ready to play at this time of year, go home.

World cup is different. Teams base the previous 4 years building up to it. Autumn internationals good opportunity to try new players, tactics and combinations, with a view to developing for the world cup. 

VimFuego

MagicPigDetective said:

VimFuego said:

MagicPigDetective said:

Can the autumn internationals be a true measure of where teams are at though? The southern hem. teams are at the end of their season and mentally and physically drained. For the northern hem these are the first internationals of the season…… I mean, Wales never play great in the autumn internationals… they save the big performances for the six nations or world cup. 

Regardless of that, it’s been supremely entertaining and long may it continue. 

it's played at the same time as the world cup, so if you ain't ready to play at this time of year, go home.

World cup is different. Teams base the previous 4 years building up to it. Autumn internationals good opportunity to try new players, tactics and combinations, with a view to developing for the world cup. 

the factors re season are still the same, cos it's the same time of year.

MagicPigDetective

VimFuego said:

MagicPigDetective said:

VimFuego said:

MagicPigDetective said:

Can the autumn internationals be a true measure of where teams are at though? The southern hem. teams are at the end of their season and mentally and physically drained. For the northern hem these are the first internationals of the season…… I mean, Wales never play great in the autumn internationals… they save the big performances for the six nations or world cup. 

Regardless of that, it’s been supremely entertaining and long may it continue. 

it's played at the same time as the world cup, so if you ain't ready to play at this time of year, go home.

World cup is different. Teams base the previous 4 years building up to it. Autumn internationals good opportunity to try new players, tactics and combinations, with a view to developing for the world cup. 

the factors re season are still the same, cos it's the same time of year.

International teams get their players released from clubs in camps and training for much longer before the world cup, with warm up matches. It’s a different scenario. 

VimFuego

MagicPigDetective said:

VimFuego said:

MagicPigDetective said:

VimFuego said:

MagicPigDetective said:

Can the autumn internationals be a true measure of where teams are at though? The southern hem. teams are at the end of their season and mentally and physically drained. For the northern hem these are the first internationals of the season…… I mean, Wales never play great in the autumn internationals… they save the big performances for the six nations or world cup. 

Regardless of that, it’s been supremely entertaining and long may it continue. 

it's played at the same time as the world cup, so if you ain't ready to play at this time of year, go home.

World cup is different. Teams base the previous 4 years building up to it. Autumn internationals good opportunity to try new players, tactics and combinations, with a view to developing for the world cup. 

the factors re season are still the same, cos it's the same time of year.

International teams get their players released from clubs in camps and training for much longer before the world cup, with warm up matches. It’s a different scenario. 

no, it's not. It's exactly the same time of year, the southern hemisphere teams are just as tired in a WC year as now. But I get it, you just want to keep saying the same thing over and over in the hope that somehow you'll be right one day. I realise I am also saying the same thing over and over, but that's cos I'm correct, I don't have to hope for it, it's already happened.

MagicPigDetective

Always enjoy a good sport debate, regardless of who is right! If you don’t agree, that’s cool. I still think my points might be worthy of consideration  

VimFuego

Thing is, there's never going to be a perfect time to play the "autumn" internationals/WC. Our perfect time is when the 6N is played, for the SH teams, it's when the Rugby Championship is played. If the NH teams can get wins at this time of year (without help from the ref, obviously ) when they are not fully cooked, then that's great. Playing at this time of year doesn't seem to hinder the SH teams too much.

exocet

It's nothing like a WC, but I'd rather win than lose. NZ are always competitive so any win against them at any time in any place is always an achievement...of course wins against them, in NZ are more impressive. 

MagicPigDetective

I get that, this is just speculation on my behalf, but in a world cup year, the Rugby Championship will influenced by it. I mean, not risking players who are not fit etc 

Also, just looked it up, because of the 2019 World Cup, the tournament schedule was reduced, as it was in 2015, to each team playing each other once. 

bertie

how can you have the autumn internationals in June ?............................

MagicPigDetective

Good morning! I admit I’d had a few jars last night. Looking back my posts, I was just asking a question, are the autumn internationals a true measure of a nation? I see now perhaps saying this in the day England beat the World Champions, an incredible feat which I am in no way downplaying, might not go down too well. England are normally strong in the autumn internationals and world cups so perhaps it does not apply so much. 

I was thinking more of Ireland’s amazing record against the All Blacks in the autumn internationals, then flopping at the world cup. Also, well with Wales at least, a lot of pundit commentary on the team is framed around the world cup 4 year cycle, with Wales usually being very poor in the autumn internationals, but perform better at the world cup. I was also thinking of whether France can maintain this form for the next two years, and whether NZ will be a different prospect at the next world cup. All ifs and buts. 

What do you think? I’m just an armchair pundit, am I talking total rubbish?   

bertie

TBH neither you nor Vim are correct, nor are you wrong.  

You cant forecast or gauge anything.  The Autumns,   the 6-Nations,  the "what ever its called that Oz, SA, NZ and the Pumas are in"   and  the RWC - are all like an MOT - a valid test for a team AT THAT TIME. I mean look how shit we were in the 6-Nations,  6 months later we beat the world champions nation  
 Especially now with C-19 playing such a large part on selection impact.   A team today,  "could" be totally different in two weeks, let alone 3 months

What it has done - for England - its blooded and tested some great young talent against the highest opposition, and they have stood up and shown they've got it  -  Now we just need Edvardo  to continue this going forward and make some brave decisions 

Jalapeno

Think NZ are knackered right now, and after a decade of dominance have to rebuild. Saffer muscle is here for a few years, IMHO they are rightly #1, if somewhat one dimensional.

And I agree - free-kick for being slow to the lineout - though England did their fair share of it yesterday too.

RE: SA scrum yesterday - did either set of their Props push straight ? Asking for  a friend

bertie

Jalapeno said:

RE: SA scrum yesterday - did either set of their Props push straight ? Asking for  a friend

but if we have aspirations of being #1  -  should we have not been savvy enough to counter that ? or dare I say,  apply some gamesmanship  to bring it to the officials attention ?   Possible the fault of the captain ?

MagicPigDetective

bertie said:

TBH neither you nor Vim are correct, nor are you wrong.  

You cant forecast or gauge anything.  The Autumns,   the 6-Nations,  the "what ever its called that Oz, SA, NZ and the Pumas are in"   and  the RWC - are all like an MOT - a valid test for a team AT THAT TIME. I mean look how shit we were in the 6-Nations,  6 months later we beat the world champions nation  
 Especially now with C-19 playing such a large part on selection impact.   A team today,  "could" be totally different in two weeks, let alone 3 months

What it has done - for England - its blooded and tested some great young talent against the highest opposition, and they have stood up and shown they've got it  -  Now we just need Edvardo  to continue this going forward and make some brave decisions 

Yes, I think the press are guilty of hyperbole and giving narratives that might not the there, such as the whole ‘peaking too early’ thing with Ireland. There are so many factors outside of control, such as form, injuries etc it must be difficult to plan too far ahead.

bertie

the press are there to sell "newspapers"  end of.  They'll say anything that makes people take notice. 

At the end of the day. It gets dark

exocet

From a Welsh perspective, In 2nd half, SA mangled the English scrum just as easily as they mangled the Welsh. The driving maul was also just as powerful. In many ways, they should have beaten England but they didn’t. English line out is far more effective than the Welsh but for me it was that try that the new scrum half scored that demonstrated the gulf between England and Wales. I haven’t watched it again so my recollection might be “off” but that try started with a fantastic quick / long pass from Raffi Quirke that riffled into midfield to Slade who then timed his pass to perfection to set up the break that Raffi then finished off. It was sublime to watch and made the match result possible. Smith was also very calm under pressure - I see no need to rush Farrell back into the lineup.