FINISHED! Dreadnought Acoustic

Andyjr1515

BigMonka said:

Andy, I just caught up on this thread - it's amazing!

How did you get the back and top so thin? Is it just running the planks through your thicknesser and then gluing? But how do you get a good solid glued joint when it's only 2mm thick?!

Hi, @Big Monka

Pretty much what you said first.  Thicknessed the two sides down to about 4mm/3mm (for top and back), then joined, then used scrapers to get it down to around 3mm for the top and about 2.2mm for the back.  The final sanding when it's all glued up and binding is on should get it to my target 2.9mm top and 2.0mm back

If I had a better bench arrangement, I would probably have gone with jack plane for the initial thicknessing - planing thicknessers are very aggressive for this kind of job on thin sections.  I suspect a drum sanding thicknesser would be best...

BigMonka

Thanks Andy. How do you manage to get a consistent thickness with scrapers - is it all by eye?

Your threads are always inspiring.

Andyjr1515

BigMonka said:

Thanks Andy. How do you manage to get a consistent thickness with scrapers - is it all by eye?

Your threads are always inspiring.

Thanks!  Flattery will, of course, get you everywhere  )

I use one of these natty devices from Crimson Guitars:

Andyjr1515

Back braces rough-shaped and radiused in the go-bar deck, now using the 15' radius dish.  I use a few plywood rods, but most of the rods are quite flexible thin fibreglass ones ... but look how much the top of the deck is bending!

The reason I rough carve before I glue is that these braces are maple and are as hard as rock.  I always find that very difficult to shape without damaging something once they are glued in, even with a small and very sharp plane!

Here it is with them scalloped, waiting final shape and sand:

Scalloping was with a sharp chisel and newly-acquired carpenters' mallet...why didn't I get one of those before!!!!!

And now back in the deck for the cross-grain maple joint strengtheners:

The huge cat in the background, by the way, is one of my daughters' paintings...her old bedroom is now my poor-weather workshop!

DartmoorHedgehog

Andyjr1515 said:

Back braces rough-shaped and radiused in the go-bar deck ... most of the rods are quite flexible thin fibreglass ones ... but look how much the top of the deck is bending!

It's amazing how much the force adds up with only a few sticks.  When I did my DIY acoustic top replacement I used a table and some thin bamboo gardening canes as a makeshift go-bar setup, and with only about 10 to 15 rods I had to pile everything heavy I could find on the table to stop it lifting up (and it's not a light table to start with).

This build is looking really good BTW (as always with your stuff).  Fancy wood on the sides and plain on the top works really well I reckon.

Andyjr1515

DartmoorHedgehog said:

Andyjr1515 said:

Back braces rough-shaped and radiused in the go-bar deck ... most of the rods are quite flexible thin fibreglass ones ... but look how much the top of the deck is bending!

It's amazing how much the force adds up with only a few sticks.  When I did my DIY acoustic top replacement I used a table and some thin bamboo gardening canes as a makeshift go-bar setup, and with only about 10 to 15 rods I had to pile everything heavy I could find on the table to stop it lifting up (and it's not a light table to start with).

This build is looking really good BTW (as always with your stuff).  Fancy wood on the sides and plain on the top works really well I reckon.

Thanks, @DartmoorHedgehog The top is a really, really nice piece of spruce from Kirk at exotichardwoodsukltd. I got a nice piece from him for my OM build that recently has been 'wow'd over by a real luthier I know...and this piece is even better

Andyjr1515

I did a bit more tweaking of the braces and now have a much more complex set of tones coming through from the tap-tuning.  Also added the sound-hole reinforcement and bridge plate:

 

Then finished the back braces, added the reinforcing middle strip and the all important label:

Then double checked and triple checked that I'd done everything I needed to before I 'closed the box'!:

If it's dry tomorrow, I'll trim the excess and then turn my attention to the neck.

As always, thanks for looking 

Andy

Andyjr1515

I've taken off the clamps and trimmed the edges.  I give it a thin coat of varnish at this stage to protect it from dints from shavings, etc, while it's being manhandled for binding routing, etc..  That will then all be sanded off before the final finishing.

Next job is to order the binding and purfling.  In the meantime, I'll start on the neck 

paulnb57

Looking very special Andy...

Andyjr1515

I've made a reasonable amount of progress on this, despite the distractions of family, decorating, etc, etc..  

One of the things about acoustics is that, for the first time round, you spend as much time building jigs as building guitars.  One of the things that was a bit scary on my OM was routing the neck mortice and tenon.  This time I thought I'd steal a few ideas from O'Brien guitars (Youtube) / LMI and build a proper routing and template jig.  I took Rob O'Brien's basic design, but created it on the frame of an old B&D Workmate.  With a 5 minute changeover, I can now go from body holding and routing:

.. to neck angle and tenon routing:

However, before cutting the slots, the purfling and binding needed to be put in.

For the top, I used the Dremel Precision Router Base with roller attachment to cut the slots:

Then applied the purfling:

For this and the binding, I use the fairly unconventional method of PVA, coated both sides, let dry and then iron on (in the same way as I do my veneer jobs.  I'm probably the only person in the world that does it this way, but it works for me...and so much better than the conventional way of binding tape and bicycle inner tubes that, for me, always ends in disappointment, frustration and great big gaps!!!

The binding I'm using is rosewood with a black/white/black detail.  It needs pre-bending over the bending iron.  Here it is bent and drying out in the mould to hopefully hold the shape:

Next job was the PVA on the body

Then on the binding:

...then let it dry, then iron it on:

Finished results are encouraging:

paulnb57

I'd say it's bloody awesome Andy!

Andyjr1515

paulnb57 said:

I'd say it's bloody awesome Andy!

Thanks, Paul 

A little more progress, despite the decorating.  Not trimmed yet, but all four bindings are now safely on:

While the dining room paint was drying, I managed also to get out with my cheapo-cheapo band saw to cut the rough outline of the neck:

I'll be using one of the offcuts on the left to stick on to extend the heel to its full depth.

But that's it for today.  Got some serious digging to do next...sadly, not the foundations for a workshop 

Andyjr1515

I'm watching @ArchtopDave 's post on his Bailey-course OM with huge interest.  I'm pleased that I seem to have been incorporating fairly closely a lot of the basics in a similar fashion and am very interested indeed (as I know @WezV is also judging by his recent post) in some of the variations to the 'conventional' approach.  The sequence and method of the cross-brace attachment is particularly intriguing.  I love also the use of proper jigs and fixtures - that method of profiling the sides to fit the shape of the back is so much more efficient than mine.  I use the same principle, but there's a fit-for-purpose in the jigs @ArchtopDave is using. 

Back to my dreadnought, I spent the morning checking measurements and preparing everything for the "Very Scary Bit" - routing the neck tenon and body mortice slot! This one really will be a case of check, double check, triple check, quadruple check before anything is cut.  

I now have built my jig to accurately route a dovetail as well as mortice and tenon, but I don't want to try a dovetail joint the first time ever on a build that matters and one that has a finite timescale.  On the other hand, I have never been overly happy with the dry bolt-on approach I used on my OM.  It works, but it does allow a bit of slack to develop as everything beds in.  

That's fine for my own guitar because I recognise when it needs a tweak, but not OK for a build for someone else  So I'm going half-way house - I'm going to use a version of bolt-on but glue it too.  Get it all set up,  angles, fit, heel flossing, etc, and then ultimately glue it 

Obviously, the neck will be 30mm shorter once the neck is slotted in, but it's beginning to look like a guitar....

Still a lot to do, but I think the deadline is starting to look more secure!

paulnb57

Wow! Nuff said!

ArchtopDave

Andyjr1515 said:

I'm watching @ArchtopDave 's post on his Bailey-course OM with huge interest.  I'm pleased that I seem to have been incorporating fairly closely a lot of the basics in a similar fashion and am very interested indeed (as I know @WezV is also judging by his recent post) in some of the variations to the 'conventional' approach.  The sequence and method of the cross-brace attachment is particularly intriguing.  I love also the use of proper jigs and fixtures - that method of profiling the sides to fit the shape of the back is so much more efficient than mine.  I use the same principle, but there's a fit-for-purpose in the jigs @ArchtopDave is using. 

Following on from your comment above, and @WezV 's comment in my Thread, I had a close look at your braces with the benefit of magnifying them on my iPad. Whilst it looks like we have both essentially positioned our braces in the same places, there are stylistic differences between your brace shapes and mine. If I read your photos right, your side to side shaping of the braces is more limited than mine. I was simply doing what Mark Bailey instructed me to do. I therefore did side to side shaping along virtually the whole length of each brace, which would either be impossible to do, or very difficult, with the X-Brace glued in, as the X-Brace would get in the way. As far as I can see, it looks like you did side to side shaping mainly around the peak areas of your braces. I suspect therefore that the sequence of glueing of braces that I used was determined by the work that I needed to do to get the required brace shape.

Andyjr1515

ArchtopDave said:

Andyjr1515 said:

I'm watching @ArchtopDave 's post on his Bailey-course OM with huge interest.  I'm pleased that I seem to have been incorporating fairly closely a lot of the basics in a similar fashion and am very interested indeed (as I know @WezV is also judging by his recent post) in some of the variations to the 'conventional' approach.  The sequence and method of the cross-brace attachment is particularly intriguing.  I love also the use of proper jigs and fixtures - that method of profiling the sides to fit the shape of the back is so much more efficient than mine.  I use the same principle, but there's a fit-for-purpose in the jigs @ArchtopDave is using. 

Following on from your comment above, and @WezV 's comment in my Thread, I had a close look at your braces with the benefit of magnifying them on my iPad. Whilst it looks like we have both essentially positioned our braces in the same places, there are stylistic differences between your brace shapes and mine. If I read your photos right, your side to side shaping of the braces is more limited than mine. I was simply doing what Mark Bailey instructed me to do. I therefore did side to side shaping along virtually the whole length of each brace, which would either be impossible to do, or very difficult, with the X-Brace glued in, as the X-Brace would get in the way. As far as I can see, it looks like you did side to side shaping mainly around the peak areas of your braces. I suspect therefore that the sequence of glueing of braces that I used was determined by the work that I needed to do to get the required brace shape.

Yes - exactly that. There are clearly advantages from that point of view and yet this is the first time I've ever seen it done this way round. Excellent stuff - and equally excellent and informative thread too

WezV

That's the thing about guitar building. Some people will always try and tell you that their way is the best way. But really the only "bests" are what is best for you and what is best for you in a particular situation.

I like to see different ways of building as it only ever adds another option for me to use.

So yeah, thanks both, these threads are helping inspire me to pull myself out of the acoustic rut I have found myself in. I have 4 part made acoustic builds on the go

Andyjr1515

I think I mentioned that I built a neck and body routing jig.  I took ideas from the LMIII / Robert O'Brien jig and incorporated them into a rebuild of my old, clapped-out B&D Workmate.  

This allows me to hold the body and put in either a dovetail or mortice and tenon slot:

...or have a very accurate angle set and rout for the neck tenon:

The shots show a mortice and tenon template, but I was so pleased with the rig, I decided I'd try my first dovetail.

I started by doing a trial on some spare blanks.  First try I made a schoolboy error.  Second go:

Not only is the dovetail itself nice and tight but the neck angle is an accurate 2.75 degrees!

So third try was on the real thing...while I could still remember what I did!

Here's the neck:

...and the body slot:

...and the 'first fit' position:

...well chuffed!

PVO_Dave

Amazing work Andy

WezV

Looks good.

These acoustic threads have kicked me up the arse and I may actually post progress on mine soon.

Spent yesterday making templates for the neck join, mine is a bolt on thing