Next question. Floyds.

OilCityPickups

ThePrettyDamned said:

I will be going bonkers, but I use vaseline on my nuts.

That's a great remedy for new horse riders too

Chuffola

Weird - won't let me post. Body is required, apparently

viz

mike_l said:

viz said:

I have mine floating so I can do gentle vibrato, or dive bombs, or just depress by a tone, or go up momentarily instead of doing a string bend, or of course do a ping warble ruler-off-the-desk purr flutter, something which I find myself doing increasingly often.

I taught you everything I know didn't I? (didn't take long....)

well in that case there's some Mike_L influenced ping-warble-purr-fluttering in the first few seconds of THIS

Dave_Mc

Bidley said:

A lot of people (mostly the type who post on sites like Ultimate Guitar) rant and rave 'till they're blue in the face about how terrible Floyds are, when really the problems they're having is that they simply don't know how they work.

I post on ultimate guitar. None of the regulars would ever post something as silly as that. People who occasionally pop in or trolls, maybe. But you have that problem on any forum, including here.

There are definite downsides to Floyds, though, if you don't need or use one and even if you know how to set them up. And I say that as someone who loves them and whose main favourite style of music needs them. Even when I'm playing non-80s type stuff, I'd prefer a guitar without a floyd.

Chuffola

Well, it's all academic because I played the So-Cal and, lovely neck aside, it wasn't for me.

So, I bought something else. Very unoriginal and a brand I'd not normally consider but played beside its much more expensive big brother, it actually played much better and the new pickups in the range are excellent.  Superb finish, action perfect and keeps tune well. 

Loving it so far. 

randomhandclaps

I don't completely agree with the Marmite analogy for Floyds.  I believe a lot of the hate camps issues are in line with perhaps not liking the style of guitars that Floyds are usually attached to.  On the flipside there are some guys for whom all the guitars they love tend to be equipped with them.

Myself , I have always seen them as a tool.  When playing a guitar with a tremolo I use it a lot.  Not for just dive bombs or exaggerated vibrato but controlled bends.  My usual choice 95% of the time would be a Stratocaster with a well set up vintage trem.  There are time though that this may not give me the full scope of what I need.  I certainly don't love Floyds by any measure, but they are a useful tool.  Aesthetics aside it's difficult to argue against the practicality of a tremolo that if well set up can be vigorously abused and still maintain tuning stability.

octatonic

I love the Gotoh Floyd.

It is as stable as anything and I love the warble.

It couldn't be my every day guitar though.

I prefer the Gotoh 510 trem for that.

Bidley

Dave_Mc said:

Bidley said:

A lot of people (mostly the type who post on sites like Ultimate Guitar) rant and rave 'till they're blue in the face about how terrible Floyds are, when really the problems they're having is that they simply don't know how they work.

I post on ultimate guitar. None of the regulars would ever post something as silly as that. People who occasionally pop in or trolls, maybe. But you have that problem on any forum, including here.

I've never seen a thread on here citing issues like "sunken floyd wtf do I do", but I've seen plenty on UG. What makes it worse is that most of the advice is either a) take it to a guitar tech or b) get a hardtail. I'm not saying UG is full of morons, but the ratio is high.

I've no problem with people not liking floyds or the guitar they're attached to, but when they write them off because they don't know how to string them properly it does grate a little.

Dave_Mc

randomhandclaps said:

(a) I don't completely agree with the Marmite analogy for Floyds.  I believe a lot of the hate camps issues are in line with perhaps not liking the style of guitars that Floyds are usually attached to.  On the flipside there are some guys for whom all the guitars they love tend to be equipped with them.

(b) Myself , I have always seen them as a tool. 

(a) That's a good point. There are definitely good reasons (as I posted above) both for and against floyds, but there are a lot of people who unfairly write them off because they just hate everything about the 80s and who are willing to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Of course, the reverse is also true in that there are plenty of fanboys as well.

(b) Agreed.

Chuffola said:

Well, it's all academic because I played the So-Cal and, lovely neck aside, it wasn't for me.

So, I bought something else. Very unoriginal and a brand I'd not normally consider but played beside its much more expensive big brother, it actually played much better and the new pickups in the range are excellent.  Superb finish, action perfect and keeps tune well. 

Loving it so far. 

What'd you get?

Bidley said:

Dave_Mc said:

Bidley said:

A lot of people (mostly the type who post on sites like Ultimate Guitar) rant and rave 'till they're blue in the face about how terrible Floyds are, when really the problems they're having is that they simply don't know how they work.

I post on ultimate guitar. None of the regulars would ever post something as silly as that. People who occasionally pop in or trolls, maybe. But you have that problem on any forum, including here.

I've never seen a thread on here citing issues like "sunken floyd wtf do I do", but I've seen plenty on UG. What makes it worse is that most of the advice is either a) take it to a guitar tech or b) get a hardtail. I'm not saying UG is full of morons, but the ratio is high.

I've no problem with people not liking floyds or the guitar they're attached to, but when they write them off because they don't know how to string them properly it does grate a little.

Well, a lot of people on UG are pretty young, I don't think it's fair to judge them for that. Secondly, the first time I tried to restring a Floyd that happened to me, too, so I'm not going to blame people for doing what I did myself. ) Thirdly, any question sounds silly if you know the answer, again there's a difference between the people asking questions and those answering them. There are no stupid questions but there are stupid answers, kind of thing. It's also a far, far bigger forum than this one (it passed a million members a while back IIRC, obviously not all of those post regularly, but still)- you get a far bigger cross-section of people.

I don't have any time for people who unfairly write them off, either. But people not asking that silly question are arguably more likely to unfairly write them off than those who do.

Most of that advice is from the semi-regulars, occasional posters or flat-out trolls, too (the "take it to a tech or get a hardtail" thing). Again, it's not fair to judge a forum by its occasional posters. You might find threads with what you think are idiotic replies/advice, but normally eventually one of the regulars will chime in and tell those eejits to gtfo. )

ICBM

I don't hate Floyds because of the 80s .

I *detest* the warble. Actually more than that . Yes, you can set the bridge flat to stop it, but I don't like down-only trems. Or you can fit a Trem-Setter, which works, but doesn't fix some of the other problems.

I don't like the abrupt tuning change with a small arm movement, or the way the different strings detune relative to each other - these are caused by the strings being locked at both ends of the scale with no extra length to take up when the bridge moves. (The difference in this is is what gives most of the characteristic 'sound' of different trems.)

I think there is also a difference in the basic tone of the guitar, although it's not huge.

I don't like having to fiddle around with Allen keys to change strings.

I don't like the wear on various parts, or the risk of stripping screws which have to be locked down (OK, mostly on cheaper versions but not entirely), which eventually mean replacing parts - nut clamps, the nut itself, bridge knife edges, posts, sometimes saddles, and the little clamp blocks.

If any of these things bother you more than the need for rock-solid tuning and the ability to divebomb or pull up wildly, you don't want a Floyd. Vice versa, you probably do.

By the way, there is one trem which has more pull-up range than a Floyd, but I will leave you to work out which it is :P .

octatonic

ICBM said:

By the way, there is one trem which has more pull-up range than a Floyd, but I will leave you to work out which it is :P .

I know 3: 

Steinberger R Trem

Steinberger S Trem

Steinberger TransTrem

:-)

ICBM

octatonic said:

I know 3: 

Steinberger R Trem

Steinberger S Trem

Steinberger TransTrem

:-)

Do they? Possible, but that wasn't what I was thinking of.

The one I was thinking of has the ability to pull up so far you can break all the strings, if you want.

(Although the spring falls out before you get there, which may be a clue!)

octatonic

ICBM said:

octatonic said:

I know 3: 

Steinberger R Trem

Steinberger S Trem

Steinberger TransTrem

:-)

Do they? Possible, but that wasn't what I was thinking of.

The one I was thinking of has the ability to pull up so far you can break all the strings, if you want.

(Although the spring falls out before you get there, which may be a clue!)

Yup- steinys definitely do.

I think we may have worked out which one you meant though.

Dave_Mc

^ Steinberger or Kahler?

I never said you did hate them because of the 80s, fwiw. I'm well aware you're one of the ones who has valid problems with them.

I agree with you about trying to fix those problems, too- those things (to a certain extent, anyway) annoy me too, but fixing them affects how the trem feels, affects flutter etc. and to me they aren't worth what you lose. I'd rather just use a different guitar )

Bidley

ICBM said:

If any of these things bother you more than the need for rock-solid tuning and the ability to divebomb or pull up wildly, you don't want a Floyd. Vice versa, you probably do.

There are more reasons you'd like a Floyd other than those.

mike_l

ICBM said:

 

I don't like the abrupt tuning change with a small arm movement, or the way the different strings detune relative to each other - these are caused by the strings being locked at both ends of the scale with no extra length to take up when the bridge moves. (The difference in this is is what gives most of the characteristic 'sound' of different trems.)

I think there is also a difference in the basic tone of the guitar, although it's not huge.

I don't like having to fiddle around with Allen keys to change strings.

I don't like the wear on various parts, or the risk of stripping screws which have to be locked down (OK, mostly on cheaper versions but not entirely), which eventually mean replacing parts - nut clamps, the nut itself, bridge knife edges, posts, sometimes saddles, and the little clamp blocks.

If any of these things bother you more than the need for rock-solid tuning and the ability to divebomb or pull up wildly, you don't want a Floyd. Vice versa, you probably do.

By the way, there is one trem which has more pull-up range than a Floyd, but I will leave you to work out which it is :P .

The abrupt change is down to the player more than the trem. If, for example, you're used to a fender trem then it'll take a bit to get used to the difference.

Yes there is a difference in the guitar's tone, probably due to a bit of wood being removed, and a lump of metal partially replacing it. Dave Gilmour had a Floyd on his Black Strat, and didn't like the difference in tone, so went back to the standard bridge.

I've only had issue's with cheap Floyd's with parts wearing/breaking. The nut clamps on my Jackson only got changed after some idiot lost the originals didn't I........

ThePrettyDamned

ICBM;100343" said:

octatonic said:



I know 3: Steinberger R TremSteinberger S TremSteinberger TransTrem

:-)





Do they? Possible, but that wasn't what I was thinking of.

The one I was thinking of has the ability to pull up so far you can break all the strings, if you want.



(Although the spring falls out before you get there, which may be a clue!)

Okay, I'll bite. What is it?!

mike_l

I'd guesstimate it starts with a K.......

Or possibly a B.............

OilCityPickups

I don't like all the things ICBM cites with Floyds, warble, carrying tools to lock them, parts wearing/breaking  ... plus aesthetically they look horrible: like a toy 'Britons' combine harvester nailed to the arse end of your guitar
They work really well for some people, many do indeed like the very characteristic, and to me a little passé, set of prescribed 'tricks'.

mike_l

TheGuitarWeasel said:

I don't like all the things ICBM cites with Floyds, warble, carrying tools to lock them, parts wearing/breaking  ... plus aesthetically they look horrible: like a toy 'Britons' combine harvester nailed to the arse end of your guitar
They work really well for some people, many do indeed like the very characteristic, and to me a little passé, set of prescribed 'tricks'.

Agreed, Floyds work well for me, even if I'm not abusing them, they feel (to me) just right under my picking hand, whereas other bridges (Bent-steel/fixed/Kahler etc) I find unconfortable.

Aesthetically I like them. I prefer the look to fixed or 6-point trems (Go on call me a guitar pervert)

As for the "prescribed tricks" It's handy to have them available, and not use them. A divebomb once in a set is enough (even for a Floyd nut case)

And yes, I can play a solo on a Floyd equipped guitar without assaulting the Floyd. (It's happened once....)