Led Zep to face copyright trial over Stairway

Fretwired

Interesting ...

RobDavies

scrumhalf

You can pull bits out of songs that sound similar with a bit of time and effort.

Pink Floyd's Echoes v Andrew Lloyds Bank's Phantom Of The Opera
The Kinks' Lazy Sunday Afternoon v Nancy Sinatra's These Boots Are Made For Walking.

Sometimes it's deliberate - I am no Oasis fan but a friend told me that they use small bits of Beatles songs.

Sambostar

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-TSvxZ40RQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-hlcaCC_1I&nohtml5=False

digitalscream

scrumhalf said:

You can pull bits out of songs that sound similar with a bit of time and effort.

Pink Floyd's Echoes v Andrew Lloyds Bank's Phantom Of The Opera
The Kinks' Lazy Sunday Afternoon v Nancy Sinatra's These Boots Are Made For Walking.

Sometimes it's deliberate - I am no Oasis fan but a friend told me that they use small bits of Beatles songs.

Success in these cases doesn't depend on intent in the UK, as far as I know - in fact, it doesn't even depend on hearing the song you supposedly copied first, either. Which song came first, and whether the second song is "substantially similar" is all that's required.

I'm not a lawyer, mind, but that's my understanding of it.

Skipped

I think we tend to put guys like Jimmy Page on a pedestal. I know I do that with other musicians.

If you are old enough, do you remember when you were watching the New York section of Live Aid?
And your grandma said to you......
"Huh? What is wrong with the guitarist? He doesn't look right. He is playing all the wrong notes. And He Isn't Wearing Any Clothes."

BowynMadley

I'm sure most of you have heard that page and plant will apear in court in May to face a jury on whether they stole the chore structure of stairway from a band called spirit in the late 60s/early 70s. The song in question is called Taurus. Personally I can hear similarities but not enough to warrant all the hoohar. I'm just interested in your thoughts. Sorry if there is already a thread for this I haven't had a good look.

Commence debate

Bo

eSully

Thread discussion here

http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/72867/led-zep-to-face-copyright-trial-over-stairway#latest

Jalapeno

Threads merged. Wasn't hard, both were on the front page @BowynMadley - wasn't had to see :x

dogload

As a long-time fan of Spirit and Randy California (one of my big influences) I think it would be nice to see some Zep-cash going to his family. 

On the other hand, I don't think that plagiarism charges should be hurled about, willy-nilly just because some songs sound a bit like others. It's a fact of life that art and music borrows it's influences all over the place and unless it's blatant like My Sweet Lord for example, it shouldn't be seen as a cash-cow.

That Jethro Tull thing had never registered until I saw the article - despite being massively into Tull for a long time.

mudslide73

They're going for the "it's so cliche'd it's a standard" defence I think. Jim'll be paying everyone off if this gets through. Half of my collection is made up of artists he's been "inspired by".

LZ are my favourite band btw.

ESBlonde

In modern parlence

Led Zep - Feat - Spirit

;-)

Paul_C

scrumhalf said:

You can pull bits out of songs that sound similar with a bit of time and effort.

Pink Floyd's Echoes v Andrew Lloyds Bank's Phantom Of The Opera
The Kinks' Lazy Sunday Afternoon v Nancy Sinatra's These Boots Are Made For Walking.

Sometimes it's deliberate - I am no Oasis fan but a friend told me that they use small bits of Beatles songs.

Lloyd Webber has long been considered a borrower of other people's work.

Teetonetal

digitalscream said:

scrumhalf said:

You can pull bits out of songs that sound similar with a bit of time and effort.

Pink Floyd's Echoes v Andrew Lloyds Bank's Phantom Of The Opera
The Kinks' Lazy Sunday Afternoon v Nancy Sinatra's These Boots Are Made For Walking.

Sometimes it's deliberate - I am no Oasis fan but a friend told me that they use small bits of Beatles songs.

Success in these cases doesn't depend on intent in the UK, as far as I know - in fact, it doesn't even depend on hearing the song you supposedly copied first, either. Which song came first, and whether the second song is "substantially similar" is all that's required.

I'm not a lawyer, mind, but that's my understanding of it.

Was just about to write a similar post. I think Geroge Harrison's my sweet lord was one where no intent was deemed reasonable, but he still lost due to unconscious plagiarism. 

I think you have to demonstrate both the similarity in the song, dates of release and the likelihood of the original song being heard.

The funny one that I always hear is echos and phantom of the opera.

It must be getting hard to write something truly original now though, not only due to the weight of music that's now been written, but also how easy it is to hear everything from the most popular to the most obscure these days.

Snap

lloyd said:

To be honest, how many combinations of chords/notes that sound 'good' to our western ears can their be? 

How many times do you sit down to write a song and realise it's already been written? I wrote (I can't get no) satisfaction by the Rolling Stones the other week for example....

I'm not a fan of these law-suits for plagiarism as it's so subjective. Where do you draw the line? Who gets the rights for I - V - vi - IV? Or 12 bar blues progression?

Yep, its a load of crap. If we go down this route, just about every bluesman could be sued by the other bluesman.

Where does it stop? And, is it fair to put it to a jury of general public, or should it really be a jury of composers?

xSkarloey

RocknRollDave said:

Skarloey said:

Honestly, if this case wins I shall change my name to 'Trad Arr' and absolutely clean up.

I thought about using Les Beat as my nom-de-plume, so that when my albums are in the rack in alphabetical order they are listed as "Beat, Les"....and I may at least gain a few sales down to short-sghtedness....

However, if the shop does as they sometimes do here (and certainly do abroad) and list things by alphabetical order going by FIRST name, then you'll have to hope there are a few shoppers about interested in what sounds like it could be a French Ska tribute band.

impmann

TBH, the only reason that this is going to court is that the *trustees* of the estate stand to benefit from millions. NOT the guys who wrote the song that may or may not have inspired something else.

I thought there is a similarity but not *that* overt.

History is littered with these - for example: Changing Man by Paul Weller is more than a little similar to ELO's 10538 Overture... but then again, our Jeff may have been a little inspired by Dear Prudence by the Beatles...

rlw

There's a Davy Graham version of a classic which uses the same arpeggio - recorded in 1959.

gubble

Let's all hope nobody tries to sue them regarding the song Kashire or Rage Against The Machine are going to have a very tough time explaining Wake Up.

All musicians are influenced by other musicians and realistically there's only a finate number of progessions, riffs, suequences that can be played in music - unless you count free form Jazz

lloyd

Keith Richards on being introduced to Rich Robinson (Black Crowes):

Introducer: Keef, meet Rich Robinson of the Black Crowes, have you heard of them/him

Keef: Heard of them/him? I invented them....

Possibly not true, but funny all the same and probably easier to be generous with £100m in the bank.....