Led Zep to face copyright trial over Stairway

ICBM

Zeppelin *were* an amazing band, but they still nicked a fair few things, and in many cases didn't give proper credit.

xSkarloey

@icbm Yes but most if not all have been settled by now.

I'm still not confident the prosecution can really and truly make this stick on purely musical grounds.

As I said before if I imagine each passage stripped down and played on piano or a different instrument it's far less clear cut.

The evidence you're left with clearly links Spirit to Zep professionally but on balance, was it truly nicked? After all we're talking about a set of arpeggios and possibly- only loosely possibly- the vaguest notion of an arrangement, but not the full song.

There's another precedent which the Spirit camp need to be wary of if they think they can take this all the way: a man called Jake Holmes who wrote a song called Dazed and Confused (and who now gets an 'inspired by' credit from Zep) tried to sue and settled out of court. If you hear his work it's plainly a closer fit with the Zep track than the Spirit tune and Stairway.

If Jake Holmes 'inspired' 'Dazed...' I think the best Spirit can hope for is being classed as 'loosely gesturing in the vague direction of the first few bars of Stairway' which IMO is not worth a credit or any royalties.

ICBM

That's what I meant. I hear it as "an idea inspired by", based on a common descending chord progression, and with no part of it actually identical even though it really does trigger the association when you know the famous song as well as we all do. Page may very well have heard the Spirit piece and then come up with something similar himself, but not by copying it note-for-note. It's actually quite like those amazingly annoying ad tunes which do the same thing in *nearly* copying the original, but just far enough off to deliberately avoid copyright... although obviously this is the other way round.

xSkarloey

@icbm

What you say about not giving credit is dead right. There's a whole lotta reckonings that have been made in ensuing years.

Another very telling point is that Randy California had 26 years to instigate proceedings and never did so.

I'm sure these and many other points will be laboured by Zep's barrister (or US equivalent thereof).

dindude

A descending bass minor chord is hardly new but the phrasing of it seems VERY close. But the off-shoot from the opening is a completely different song.

This is old news but I only heard it on the radio today, how close is Paul Wellers Changing Man riff to is ELO song!

ICBM

dindude said:

A descending bass minor chord is hardly new but the phrasing of it seems VERY close. But the off-shoot from the opening is a completely different song.

This is old news but I only heard it on the radio today, how close is Paul Wellers Changing Man riff to is ELO song!

Which itself is very similar to The Beatles' Dear Prudence - more obviously so from the Siouxsie & The Banshees cover. I think Weller has admitted he nicked it, but I could be wrong.

The best recent example is Sam Smith's 'Stay With Me' being pinched from Tom Petty's 'I Won't Back Down ' - and although Petty himself seemed not to be bothered, his lawyers were. Smith's side agreed a settlement immediately too, which tends to indicate they knew they'd been caught.

Roland

... Or they new it was going to be expensive to contest in a US court

Bygone_Tones

The one that sticks in my mind is a song by Lonestar called Amazed. I dont think it was very successful here but did get some airplay on the radio. The first couple of lines in the verses are a blatant copy of Bryan Adams Please Forgive Me.



 

kjdowd

I think there was a songwriters circle thing on telly where Fran whatsiname from Travis admitted nicking the chord progression for Writing to Reach You from Wonderwall (not subtle, though, given that it contains the lines The radio is playing all the usual, 
And what's a wonderwall anyway ")

p90fool

I don't think Led Zeppelin's reputation for absolutely bubonic plagiarism is founded merely on a few derivative blues cliches.

Until forced to change it by law they claimed this song as their own for decades. It's just theft, plain and simple, unless fans are going to claim that it's a common chord progression and title?

UnclePsychosis

People wouldn't be half so relaxed about this if it were some shitty boy band who'd ripped off their beloved Led Zep.

Page, Plant et al made a career from stealing other people's stuff, if it's biting them on the arse now I have little sympathy.

57Deluxe

Here's a few more 'Classic' Zeps!

ICBM

p90fool said:

bubonic plagiarism

Fantastic band name, I hope you've registered that .

kossofffan

No jury would accept that the entire song is ripped off from this,

http://news.sky.com/story/1676782/led-zeppelin-face-stairway-to-heaven-lawsuit

click the video to see Justin Sandercoe's take on it.

Skipped

You have to consider "benefit of the doubt".

For example: You confront a man who is in your garden. He tells you that he was simply following his dog who has now vanished.
This is completely plausable. Not so much if he has convictions for burglary.

p90fool

ICBM;1035947" said:

p90fool said:

bubonic plagiarism










Fantastic band name, I hope you've registered that .

I can't, I stole it!

axisus

Skipped said:

You have to consider "benefit of the doubt".

For example: You confront a man who is in your garden. He tells you that he was simply following his dog who has now vanished.
This is completely plausable. Not so much if he has convictions for burglary.

Bloody hell! one minute Page is ripping off songs, next he is kidnapping dogs and robbing houses. Where did it all go wrong????

axisus

The biggest rip-off I remember was the Jam's 'Start', which is just like the Beatles Taxman.

Philly_Q

Bygone_Tones said:

The one that sticks in my mind is a song by Lonestar called Amazed. 

Which reminds me, the (excellent) 1970s Welsh rock band Lone Star had a song called "All Of Us To All Of You" which has a main riff remarkably similar to Deep Purple's "Burn".

not_the_dj

Philly_Q said:

Bygone_Tones said:

The one that sticks in my mind is a song by Lonestar called Amazed. 

Which reminds me, the (excellent) 1970s Welsh rock band Lone Star had a song called "All Of Us To All Of You" which has a main riff remarkably similar to Deep Purple's "Burn".

Is that the Deep Purple that nicked the Black Night riff from Rick Nelson's Summertime?