EU Referendum Vote - Poll

Evilmags

Lefties always believe they know what's best for you, despite not being you. The EU is a mess and needs abolished.

DaevidJ

Just leaving this here...

ToneControl

ICBM said:

It's not the politicians who you need to listen to. As for "listening to the ruling classes", like scientists, doctors, industrialists and trade unionists - odd definition of the ruling classes, but whatever - they are the experts in their own fields. I'm more than happy to accept that I don't know as much as they do. The majority of the more educated and informed people in this country are in favour of staying in. Not all of them, no - but a clear majority.

You can't have a clear majority without canvassing opinions

We've already got it on good authority from @Evilmags that leading economists have been threatened with the sack if they fail to follow the establishment line.

Ruling class, power elite, the establishment, call it what you like

I'm saying that the people who own us could be instructing their senior servants to oppose Brexit

There seems to be a lack of professionals willing to come forward to criticise the completely obvious flaws in the case made by the "Remain" campaign

Did you get a chance to read this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_model

This explains how those scientists, doctors, industrialists, journalists, etc are filtered through their education and careers, to ensure they follow the wishes of the people who own most of the wealth

Ro_S

nice one jezzer on marr today.   last sunday of the campaign.  well played.

TheBigDipper

Fretwired said:

Give me strength ... it was just a little Blackadder style humour .. :-)

Next time, help me with an emoticon and I'd have known it was meant to be humorous... 

I've seen far too many statements like that made in total seriousness in the last few weeks. My humour bone is running out of steam!

Heartfeltdawn

Please hurry up, Thursday. 

ToneControl

DaevidJ said:

Just leaving this here...

spits out his dummy at 2:10

quite a good presentation, although he simply addresses how much law there is to deal with

he claims that the UK govt simply permits the ECJ to overrule our courts, I'm not certain that's the full story - does the EU not compel the UK govt to acquiesce? 

he also warns of all those trade agreements the EU has with other countries that will be lost, and that India, China and the USA won't be interested. Well none of those have a deal with the EU either

Trouble is, his job is funded by the EU, he has the Jean Monnet chair

http://www.jeanmonnet-emu.eu/support/funding

so cannot claim to be impartial

ToneControl

Ro_S said:

nice one jezzer on marr today.   last sunday of the campaign.  well played.

A masterpiece of passive aggressive behaviour.

It's definitely as if he's been told to do something that he disagrees with, and so decides to do it badly

Either that or he's a crap politician

Oh hang on....

ToneControl

Proposed long-term solutions for the Eurozone crisis

have a look at this and see which you would prefer:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposed_long-term_solutions_for_the_Eurozone_crisis

Heartfeltdawn

ToneControl said:

Trouble is, his job is funded by the EU, he has the Jean Monnet chair

http://www.jeanmonnet-emu.eu/support/funding

so cannot claim to be impartial

Yes he can. It's up to you to provide evidence that he is not acting impartially. Simply being funded by the EU is not evidence. 

ToneControl

Heartfeltdawn said:

ToneControl said:

Trouble is, his job is funded by the EU, he has the Jean Monnet chair

http://www.jeanmonnet-emu.eu/support/funding

so cannot claim to be impartial

Yes he can. It's up to you to provide evidence that he is not acting impartially. Simply being funded by the EU is not evidence. 

he's a complete EU fanboy, I listened to the whole thing

Being paid by the EU is evidence that he is by default not impartial, it's up to him to declare this and prove otherwise

Heartfeltdawn

ToneControl said:

he's a complete EU fanboy, I listened to the whole thing

Being paid by the EU is evidence that he is by default not impartial, it's up to him to declare this and prove otherwiseI

Best buy yourself a pogo stick, you'll need it for that kind of kangaroo court. 

TheBigDipper

ToneControl said:

Trouble is, his job is funded by the EU, he has the Jean Monnet chair

http://www.jeanmonnet-emu.eu/support/funding

so cannot claim to be impartial

Yes he can. It's up to you to provide evidence that he is not acting impartially. Simply being funded by the EU is not evidence. 

he's a complete EU fanboy, I listened to the whole thing

Being paid by the EU is evidence that he is by default not impartial, it's up to him to declare this and prove otherwise

Hmmm... 

So you cannot be impartial if one of the sides of a debate is funding you?

Where does that leave all the journalists and columnists who are funded by their newspaper proprietors, I wonder?

Or were you not making a general point, just one about informed opinions by subject matter experts who say things that are inconvenient? 

Heartfeltdawn

TheBigDipper said:

Hmmm... 

So you cannot be impartial if one of the sides of a debate is funding you?

Where does that leave all the journalists and columnists who are funded by their newspaper proprietors, I wonder?

It leaves some of them them in the position of the weekday edition of their newspaper backing Remain and the weekend edition saying Leave (and vice versa). Covering all bases commercially in other words, which is exactly what was seen with the Scottish referendum with the difference in front cover between the English and Scottish Sun come voting time. 

ToneControl

Heartfeltdawn said:

ToneControl said:

he's a complete EU fanboy, I listened to the whole thing

Being paid by the EU is evidence that he is by default not impartial, it's up to him to declare this and prove otherwiseI

Best buy yourself a pogo stick, you'll need it for that kind of kangaroo court. 

So.. I listened to what he said, he's a great admirer of the EU Law making machine

I would assume that's why he was given a professorship paid for by the EU, to be an official expert on EU law

So when he then says he supports "remain", you want me to assume he's a disinterested impartial expert?

His whole career and current job is based on his enthusiasm for the EU

Do you think this level of partiality would go unchallenged in a court of law or a select committee?

ToneControl

TheBigDipper said:

ToneControl said:

Trouble is, his job is funded by the EU, he has the Jean Monnet chair

http://www.jeanmonnet-emu.eu/support/funding

so cannot claim to be impartial

Yes he can. It's up to you to provide evidence that he is not acting impartially. Simply being funded by the EU is not evidence. 

he's a complete EU fanboy, I listened to the whole thing

Being paid by the EU is evidence that he is by default not impartial, it's up to him to declare this and prove otherwise

Hmmm... 

So you cannot be impartial if one of the sides of a debate is funding you?

not really, no

That's why medical studies with anything like this conflict of interest are deemed unethical

TheBigDipper

Evilmags said:

The majority of economists who are independent and have the ability to write what they believe are in favour of Brexit.

ToneControl said:

Heartfeltdawn said:

ToneControl said:

Trouble is, his job is funded by the EU, he has the Jean Monnet chair

http://www.jeanmonnet-emu.eu/support/funding

so cannot claim to be impartial

Yes he can. It's up to you to provide evidence that he is not acting impartially. Simply being funded by the EU is not evidence. 

he's a complete EU fanboy, I listened to the whole thing

Being paid by the EU is evidence that he is by default not impartial, it's up to him to declare this and prove otherwise

Hmmm... 

So you can't be impartial if one of the sides in a debate is funding you. 

Where does that leave journalists and columnists being funded by their newspaper proprietors, I wonder? Or did you not mean it as a general principle, just when informed opinions by subject matter experts make statements that are inconvenient? 

TheBigDipper

Evilmags said:

The majority of economists who are independent and have the ability to write what they believe are in favour of Brexit.

ToneControl said:

Heartfeltdawn said:

ToneControl said:

Trouble is, his job is funded by the EU, he has the Jean Monnet chair

http://www.jeanmonnet-emu.eu/support/funding

so cannot claim to be impartial

Yes he can. It's up to you to provide evidence that he is not acting impartially. Simply being funded by the EU is not evidence. 

he's a complete EU fanboy, I listened to the whole thing

Being paid by the EU is evidence that he is by default not impartial, it's up to him to declare this and prove otherwise

Hmmm... 

So you can't be impartial if one of the sides in a debate is funding you. 

Where does that leave journalists and columnists being funded by their newspaper proprietors, I wonder? Or did you not mean it as a general principle, just when informed opinions by subject matter experts make statements that are inconvenient? 

ToneControl

TheBigDipper said:

Evilmags said:

The majority of economists who are independent and have the ability to write what they believe are in favour of Brexit.

ToneControl said:

Heartfeltdawn said:

ToneControl said:

Trouble is, his job is funded by the EU, he has the Jean Monnet chair

http://www.jeanmonnet-emu.eu/support/funding

so cannot claim to be impartial

Yes he can. It's up to you to provide evidence that he is not acting impartially. Simply being funded by the EU is not evidence. 

he's a complete EU fanboy, I listened to the whole thing

Being paid by the EU is evidence that he is by default not impartial, it's up to him to declare this and prove otherwise

Hmmm... 

So you can't be impartial if one of the sides in a debate is funding you. 

Where does that leave journalists and columnists being funded by their newspaper proprietors, I wonder? Or did you not mean it as a general principle, just when informed opinions by subject matter experts make statements that are inconvenient? 

almost no journalists are impartial

that's why you have to use your own brain

thanks for being patronising by the way

This video explains how journalists are also filtered from childhood to follow the wishes of their bosses. Tell me if you need any of it explaining ;-)

ToneControl

The more I consider it, I reckon Osborne has committed political suicide

if leave wins, he will either have to try to enforce his punishment budget, and he will fail, and be fired

If remain win, he will have lost the trust of too many voters to be able to stand as a candidate for PM, and might end up with a vote of no confidence anyway

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/15/eu-facts-how-credible-is-george-osbornes-threat-of-30-billion-of/