So, 4 days on, were Remain scaremongering or not?

ICBM

Chalky said:

I just follows the rules of the voting, Sir. (Doffs imaginary cap)

Precisely why the rules need to be improved. QED.

p90fool

ICBM said:

On the other hand you seem to think that a result dictated by the minority who shouts the loudest is democracy.

Well that's how it was when the Greeks invented it.

(Wonder how they're getting on now...)

p90fool

Chalky is right though, there is a tendency towards intellectual snobbery when it comes to letting the general public vote on complex issues, but I've been very encouraged by last week's developments.
I've spent my entire life thinking that around three quarters of the population are credulous numpties, it turns out it's only 52%.

Every cloud an' all that.

Chalky

p90fool;1134241" said:

Chalky is right though, there is a tendency towards intellectual snobbery when it comes to letting the general public vote on complex issues, but I've been very encouraged by last week's developments.

I've spent my entire life thinking that around three quarters of the population are credulous numpties, it turns out it's only 52%.



Every cloud an' all that.

Oooo you're on the ball this morning! )

octatonic

p90fool said:

Chalky is right though, there is a tendency towards intellectual snobbery when it comes to letting the general public vote on complex issues, but I've been very encouraged by last week's developments.
I've spent my entire life thinking that around three quarters of the population are credulous numpties, it turns out it's only 52%.

Every cloud an' all that.

Stealing this.

Troy

ICBM said:

On the other hand you seem to think that a result dictated by the minority who shouts the loudest is democracy.

How is 52% the minority?

RaymondLin

p90fool;1134241" said:

Chalky is right though, there is a tendency towards intellectual snobbery when it comes to letting the general public vote on complex issues, but I've been very encouraged by last week's developments.

I've spent my entire life thinking that around three quarters of the population are credulous numpties, it turns out it's only 52%.



Every cloud an' all that.

Well, statistically around 50% of the population have an IQ under 100 and 50% over 100...:p.

There's another explanation!

ICBM

Troy said:

How is 52% the minority?

Does this really need explaining?

52% of a 72% turnout is 37% of the electorate. ie a minority.

Modulus_Amps

ICBM said:

Troy said:

How is 52% the minority?

Does this really need explaining?

52% of a 72% turnout is 37% of the electorate. ie a minority.

or 37% majority for leave
with 34% minority for stay
with 28% minority who did not care enough to vote

it is still a majority when looked at as a whole

Troy

ICBM;1134392" said:

[quote=Troy]
How is 52% the minority?

Does this really need explaining?

52% of a 72% turnout is 37% of the electorate. ie a minority.
[/quote]

I don't think you can class 37% of the electorate as a minority. Minroity would be more like 10% or less. And that's still more then who voted for remain.

Sporky

It depends a bit on how you assess the didn't-voters.

If they saw it as "d'you want to change the current situation?" then not voting might be equivalent, to them, of "no, I don't want to change".

If they saw it as just a load of old grey men arguing a lot then it could well be "I just do not care what the outcome is".

If they saw it as something they didn't feel qualified to answer then...

If they thought it was definitely going one way or the other then it could be tacit approval of what they thought would happen anyway.

And, of course, it varies by person, just as leavers and remainers will each have had individual reasons.

ICBM

Modulus_Amps said:

or 37% majority for leave 

with 34% minority for stay
with 28% minority who did not care enough to vote

Your first line is wrong. It should be 37% minority for leave.

Modulus_Amps said:

it is still a majority when looked at as a whole

No, the exact point is that when looked at *as a whole* it is a minority - 37% to 63%.

Troy said:

I don't think you can class 37% of the electorate as a minority. Minroity would be more like 10% or less.

49.999% of the electorate is a minority.

Do you actually understand what minority and majority mean?

Sporky said:

It depends a bit on how you assess the didn't-voters.

If they saw it as "d'you want to change the current situation?" then not voting might be equivalent, to them, of "no, I don't want to change".

If they saw it as just a load of old grey men arguing a lot then it could well be "I just do not care what the outcome is".

If they saw it as something they didn't feel qualified to answer then...

If they thought it was definitely going one way or the other then it could be tacit approval of what they thought would happen anyway.

And, of course, it varies by person, just as leavers and remainers will each have had individual reasons.

Exactly - because they did not vote and you do not know how they might have, you cannot claim that a majority of the people voted for a change. (I know you aren't personally.)

I know very well that the larger minority "won" because almost a third of the electorate didn't vote. To me, that isn't good enough when we're talking about such a huge change that will affect those who did not vote as much as it will those who did.

lloyd

The overwhelming amount of work that's going to have to be done large portions of all types of 

Troy said:

ICBM;1134392" said:

[quote=Troy]
How is 52% the minority?

Does this really need explaining?

52% of a 72% turnout is 37% of the electorate. ie a minority.
[/quote]

I don't think you can class 37% of the electorate as a minority. Minroity would be more like 10% or less. And that's still more then who voted for remain.

I think you probably can, as that's what the word means!

Sporky

ICBM said:

Exactly - because they did not vote and you do not know how they might have, you cannot claim that a majority of the people voted for a change. (I know you aren't personally.)

Indeed - nor, similarly, can anyone claim that they were effectively voting for no change. I suppose they could be polled, but it's after the fact which may well make the answer now different from the answer then.

Troy

CBM said:

Troy said:

I don't think you can class 37% of the electorate as a minority. Minroity would be more like 10% or less.

49.999% of the electorate is a minority.

Do you actually understand what minority and majority mean?

Yes I do, it also depends on context. Ignoring the non voters (as we don't know what way they would have voted) then means the Remain voters are the minority. 

Then again, what do I know, I voted leave so means i'm uneducated, though never knew having a 2.1 degree in ICT means i'm uneducated...

lloyd

Troy said:

CBM said:

Troy said:

I don't think you can class 37% of the electorate as a minority. Minroity would be more like 10% or less.

49.999% of the electorate is a minority.

Do you actually understand what minority and majority mean?

Yes I do, it also depends on context. Ignoring the non voters (as we don't know what way they would have voted) then means the Remain voters are the minority. 

Then again, what do I know, I voted leave so means i'm uneducated, though never knew having a 2.1 degree in ICT means i'm uneducated...

Ignoring the straw man, a minority of the electorate voted leave, no matter how you dress it up.

A majority of the electorate that voted, voted leave.

ICBM

Troy said:

Then again, what do I know, I voted leave so means i'm uneducated, though never knew having a 2.1 degree in ICT means i'm uneducated…

When did I say that it did?

However claiming that a 37% is not a minority and that it needs to be something like 10% or less is simply wrong.

Modulus_Amps

ICBM said:

Modulus_Amps said:

or 37% majority for leave 

with 34% minority for stay
with 28% minority who did not care enough to vote

Your first line is wrong. It should be 37% minority for leave.

Modulus_Amps said:

it is still a majority when looked at as a whole

No, the exact point is that when looked at *as a whole* it is a minority - 37% to 63%.

no its not, your way of presenting the figures suggest that 63% was a united voice and is too ambiguous, it is exactly the sort of thing the campaigns did to make things look better or worse than they actually are.

My way shows that the leave voters held a majority, i.e. the largest number, but it makes it clear that it is not more than half of the electorate.

I obviously understand your frustration with the poor turnout, I have the same frustration to be honest but arguing over semantics is not going to change anything here, Glasgow only had 54% turnout, I cannot understand that, the youth only had a 32% turnout, I cannot understand that, there is no logical explanation to peoples apathy other than they did not care enough which way the vote went.

Sporky

ICBM said:

Troy said:

Then again, what do I know, I voted leave so means i'm uneducated, though never knew having a 2.1 degree in ICT means i'm uneducated…

When did I say that it did?

You didn't. It's a standard leaver tactic this year - dismiss remain voters by claiming they're all intolerant snobs, while missing the irony of such a claim.

Troy

I CBA to reply any more on posts regarding the referendum. All I read is that the Remain wants another referendum (Though do wonder what they would have said if the results were reversed), as well as name calling us Leave voters (eg cunt, rascist, uneducated, unemployed, ignorant, etc.. (go read some of the posts again if you don't believe me)). I've stated one of my reasons why I voted leave (Fishing industry) and no one from the Remain has commented as they know that's a valid point.

I'm (like the UK) out.