Alternative title shocker: "And then there were none".

ICBM

Paul_C said:

If we managed to homogenise human beings into one "race" with one eye colour and one hair colour we'd still find other ways to separate "us" from "them" and use that as a way to belittle "them", sadly.

So is this racist? Obviously the sentiment isn't - quite the opposite - but could they get away with those descriptions today?

Paul_C

ICBM said:

Paul_C said:

If we managed to homogenise human beings into one "race" with one eye colour and one hair colour we'd still find other ways to separate "us" from "them" and use that as a way to belittle "them", sadly.

So is this racist? Obviously the sentiment isn't - quite the opposite - but could they get away with those descriptions today?

I've always considered that a song of hope - that we can one day rid ourselves of prejudice and hatred, but I don't see it happening - if we can't agree on Bigsby Yes/No then there's no hope  

lloyd

ICBM said:

Paul_C said:

If we managed to homogenise human beings into one "race" with one eye colour and one hair colour we'd still find other ways to separate "us" from "them" and use that as a way to belittle "them", sadly.

So is this racist? Obviously the sentiment isn't - quite the opposite - but could they get away with those descriptions today?

This is great, the sentiment is clearly a one love kind of thing, but could you get away with that these days? Fuck no! I think we're overly sensitive these days to language. It's a shame, white people do have soft and sensitive skin, black peoples hair is black and kinky, you just can't say it no more.

thermionic

ICBM said:

I had a 'golliwog' toy in the very late 1960s or the early 70s, and I don't think that was thought of as racist either, even by adults. I never realised it was originally meant to represent a black man until years later after I'd forgotten all about it. Robertson's Marmalade actually used a Golliwog symbol until 2001.

I remember those as well. I'm not sure I realised when I first knew of them, but when that word was used in a derogatory manner towards a kid in my primary school (I grew up in rural north Wales, and he was adopted from the Caribbean) I could tell, even at that age, that there was a nasty undertone to it.

richardhomer

Plenty of anti-Semitic stuff in Agatha Christie novels as well, I believe.

Shame she's not still with us; she could stand against Jeremy Corbyn....

octatonic

Same with the original Bond books.

I have some first editions with some pretty non-PC language in them.

holnrew

Cut from Fantasia

ICBM

holnrew said:

Cut from Fantasia

There's some well dodgy stuff in that bit of it. Racist, sexist and quite possibly horse-ist all at the same time .

mudslide73

EricTheWeary;1133849" said:

. For a bit of racism wrapped in historical clothing Google the Labour in Vain pub in Stone - I could spuriously link this it to being an area with a very high portion of Leave voters  if I was feeling cheeky. 

That's crazy. I live about 3 miles from there but I wasn't aware of it until you mentioned it.

Paul_C

richardhomer said:

Plenty of anti-Semitic stuff in Agatha Christie novels as well, I believe.

Shame she's not still with us; she could stand against Jeremy Corbyn....

Really ?  I've read a lot of Agatha Christie and while I'm sure it's possible, even if it's "of its time" I don't remember anything specifically racist. Even the Ten Little ******* is only a nursery rhyme used as a plot device rather than something nasty. I shall do some googling.

lloyd

holnrew said:

Cut from Fantasia

What's up with that?

Emp_Fab

You are joking aren't you ?

Fretwired

octatonic said:

Did anyone else know this?

I was watching a film adaptation of Agatha Christie's "And then there were none" and did a bit of googling after the fact only to find out that the original title of the book was 'Ten Little N******'.

The book was written in 1939.

Seems ridiculous and very weird that was considered OK.

It was based on a children's nursery rhyme that was popular until the 1960s.

THis was on the TV in 1970s ..

professorben

octatonic;1133838" said:

Paul_C said:

I've got an copy of the book with the original title which was probably bought late 60s / early 70s



If you listen to some of the Goon Shows (1950s) there are all sorts of gags that would never be broadcast now.



The first CD I listened to today started off with All The Way From Memphis (1973) which uses a word I wince at (and which has been changed in recent releases).



It's been very recently that the UK moved away from casual racism, sadly - and I still feel sad that your favourite forum member's name is acceptable, no matter how innocent its meaning to him (and others).












I always assumed he was referring to an Australian brand of crisps (chips):





Yes, this is actually a thing.

From the country that brought you.....
https://imgur.com/a/mbuWz

mellowsun

My dad showed me a copy of The Beano from the 1930s. Black children were routinely mocked and referred to as 'nigs' in it. Racism was endemic and considered normal back then.

Seems unbelievable now.

Fretwired

mellowsun said:

My dad showed me a copy of The Beano from the 1930s. Black children were routinely mocked and referred to as 'nigs' in it. Racism was endemic and considered normal back then.

Seems unbelievable now.

It wasn't seen as racism back then.

Still around .. this advert is based on a Pears soap ad from the early 20th century .. but this is 2016.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/may/28/china-racist-detergent-advert-outrage

Chalky

Fretwired;1134233" said:

mellowsun said:

My dad showed me a copy of The Beano from the 1930s. Black children were routinely mocked and referred to as 'nigs' in it. Racism was endemic and considered normal back then.



Seems unbelievable now.





It wasn't seen as racism back then.



Still around .. this advert is based on a Pears soap ad from the early 20th century .. but this is 2016.



https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/may/28/china-racist-detergent-advert-outrage

True - it was prejudice.

It is convenient to think of it today as prejudice based on skin colour but it was much wider than that. Prejudice was about accents, dress, demeanour, where you came from, your father's occupation, what topics you raised in conversation, and so on. Being judgemental of others was the norm.

An obvious one was what job you did. And that prejudice still persists today!

lloyd

Emp_Fab said:

You are joking aren't you ?

You talking to me? I'm not joking, what's up with it?

octatonic

professorben said:

octatonic;1133838" said:

Paul_C said:

I've got an copy of the book with the original title which was probably bought late 60s / early 70s



If you listen to some of the Goon Shows (1950s) there are all sorts of gags that would never be broadcast now.



The first CD I listened to today started off with All The Way From Memphis (1973) which uses a word I wince at (and which has been changed in recent releases).



It's been very recently that the UK moved away from casual racism, sadly - and I still feel sad that your favourite forum member's name is acceptable, no matter how innocent its meaning to him (and others).












I always assumed he was referring to an Australian brand of crisps (chips):





Yes, this is actually a thing.

From the country that brought you.....
https://imgur.com/a/mbuWz

Oh wow, I forgot that this exists.

Yeah, terrible cheese as well.

BigLicks67

ICBM said:

lloyd said:

The dog in Damnbusters was called Nigger. Could have been another RAF film though?

That was the actual name of Guy Gibson's dog.

I'm not ever sure "acceptable" is the right word - it was simply considered normal, and I think in most cases was not intended in a racist way.

I had a 'golliwog' toy in the very late 1960s or the early 70s, and I don't think that was thought of as racist either, even by adults. I never realised it was originally meant to represent a black man until years later after I'd forgotten all about it. Robertson's Marmalade actually used a Golliwog symbol until 2001.

I too had a Golly when I was a kid. In fact my primary school used to collect Golly's from jam jars in order to get gifts like Footballs for the school.