What exactly is Jeremy Corbyn's plan?

randella

streethawk said:

ToneControl said:

yes, but I think amongst the general public, any  lingering  suspension of disbelief will have been dissipated

I don't know what will happen, if  MPs will defect before they are dumped.

It has always  reminded me of the "holier than thou" student politics of the 80s: everything is black and white,  constant SJW and virtue signalling competitions before anyone started using those terms.

I think labour will have a shocking result in the next GE
I would definitely not vote for them with Corbyn in charge (or anyone else  with a similar manifesto), even though I've always voted  Labour

Bizarre comment.

Vote in your interests, and those of your community: that's not manichean, it's common sense. Don't base your vote on some sort of image prejudice.

'I think Labour will have a shocking showing in the next GE'

'I would never vote for Labour under Corbyn'.

It's a common - self fulfilling - theme.

And herein lies the problem, all you've done is imply that it's wrong to not vote for them if your politics lie left of centre. It's no good telling people they're wrong, how about the party starts cooking up some ideas and saying, how about this? Vote for us, this is what'll happen, good, isn't it?

I've mostly voted Labour for one of two reasons. Either a) I actively want the party in power, or b) I've felt that they can't be any worse than the Conservative party. Unfortunately, at the moment, it's c) I don't want them anywhere near power until I'm convinced they're capable of doing something good with it. 

Never mind the country, I don't trust Corbyn to lead the party. He's demonstrably incapable of it. I don't trust John "I was just keeping her honest" McDonnell with the economy. Diane Abbott at health? Come off it. 

I could go on.  This stupid bloody train stunt Corbyn pulled has put back by five years the process of convincing the electorate that it'd be a good idea to renationalise rail. He's not even in power! Just imagine the damage he could do, in five years, to the credibility of the left if he managed to defy those 97 out of 100 polls and actually get to number 10!

So no, I don't think it's in my interests, but then a Labour government probably never will be. It's never stopped me voting for them. More importantly, I don't think this lot would be any good for the country and the people therein. It's a sad day let me tell you. 

Axe_meister

It's a pity we no longer have a credible centrist party. I used to be labour was even a member 20 years ago (communist parents). I voted for Blair but then after Iraq voted Green as a protest vote. Then went Lib Dem as they were the second largest party in my constituency. However I voted Tory (against my inner voice) at the last election as I could just not stand Milliband and I knew the lib Dems were toast.
To be honest I will probably Vote Tory again to keep Corbyn out. (Not that it will make a difference in my constituency). I do however thing there may well be some Credible Labour MPs (not sure though) who are keeping a very low profile during the current mess who will step up when the time is right. But they will have to show economic competence before my vote goes back to the left.

streethawk

I can't do it any more.

You get the government you deserve. Best of luck.

ToneControl

Is that a flounce?

Heartfeltdawn

Evilmags said:

The problem is that he lives in an acho chamber and will not mix with people who disagree with him. 

Is that a confession that you're the president of a Spanish chapter of TUSC?

Heartfeltdawn

ToneControl said:

yes, but I think amongst the general public, any  lingering  suspension of disbelief will have been dissipated

I don't know what will happen, if  MPs will defect before they are dumped.

It has always  reminded me of the "holier than thou" student politics of the 80s: everything is black and white,  constant SJW and virtue signalling competitions before anyone started using those terms.

I think labour will have a shocking result in the next GE
I would definitely not vote for them with Corbyn in charge (or anyone else  with a similar manifesto), even though I've always voted  Labour

I doubt that many have turned away from Corbyn or had any lingering thoughts of voting for him destroyed by a daft argument about a train. 

"Virtue signalling" - a phrase generally used by people who dislike certain socialism positions whilst signalling what they consider to be virtuous or true. It's a stupid stupid phrase. 

LoFi

Heartfeltdawn said:

I doubt that many have turned away from Corbyn or had any lingering thoughts of voting for him destroyed by a daft argument about a train. 

I was certainly never going to vote for him, but I had previously thought his was a decent, honest bloke; I no longer do.

Heartfeltdawn

That's entirely the point of my previous post; when I say turning away, I'm meaning people who would have voted for him now wouldn't based on the train incident. As you wouldn't have voted for him had the train incident never happened, then it doesn't really matter. I don't think it has lost him many votes right now but has lost him some face. 

streethawk

ToneControl said:

Is that a flounce?

Yes!

LoFi

Heartfeltdawn said:

That's entirely the point of my previous post; when I say turning away, I'm meaning people who would have voted for him now wouldn't based on the train incident. As you wouldn't have voted for him had the train incident never happened, then it doesn't really matter. I don't think it has lost him many votes right now but has lost him some face. 

I understood your post perfectly, but I disagree that it won't cost him votes in the future (assuming he leads the party into the next election) - it's one of a number of small bats that the Tories will use to hit him with in a campaign, a bat he didn't need to give them. It's given his opponents reasons to question not just his honesty but his competence, and there will be those in the centre (and left of centre) who'll be swayed by those questions.

There will also be those that thought he was a "good, honest bloke" but don't have my political views who might have voted for him for those reasons only and now will be thinking twice.

randella

streethawk said:

ToneControl said:

Is that a flounce?

Yes!

Don't take it personally! You like 'em, I don't (although I still have my little red card for now). Variety, spice of life and all that. 

Now if you were to try and convince me on a serious matter, I.e. that ketchup was just the ticket on a bacon sandwich instead of HP, then we do have a problem.

streethawk

randella said:

streethawk said:

ToneControl said:

Is that a flounce?

Yes!

Don't take it personally! You like 'em, I don't (although I still have my little red card for now). Variety, spice of life and all that. 

Now if you were to try and convince me on a serious matter, I.e. that ketchup was just the ticket on a bacon sandwich instead of HP, then we do have a problem.

I'm not a monster. 

littlegreenman

The train thing was a total cock-up of his own making, even I could have seen how that panned out! The guy's a fool. I'm a northern lefty and I wouldn't vote for him.

My problem is now, who the fook do I vote for?

streethawk

littlegreenman said:

The train thing was a total cock-up of his own making, even I could have seen how that panned out! The guy's a fool. I'm a northern lefty and I wouldn't vote for him.

My problem is now, who the fook do I vote for?

Christmas.

ToneControl

Heartfeltdawn said:

ToneControl said:

yes, but I think amongst the general public, any  lingering  suspension of disbelief will have been dissipated

I don't know what will happen, if  MPs will defect before they are dumped.

It has always  reminded me of the "holier than thou" student politics of the 80s: everything is black and white,  constant SJW and virtue signalling competitions before anyone started using those terms.

I think labour will have a shocking result in the next GE
I would definitely not vote for them with Corbyn in charge (or anyone else  with a similar manifesto), even though I've always voted  Labour

I doubt that many have turned away from Corbyn or had any lingering thoughts of voting for him destroyed by a daft argument about a train. 

"Virtue signalling" - a phrase generally used by people who dislike certain socialism positions whilst signalling what they consider to be virtuous or true. It's a stupid stupid phrase. 

what should we call it then?  obviously it's not going to be used by hard-left people criticising their best mates is it?
Virtue-signalling is an accurate description of what some people did and do, and I saw it all the time in the 80s at Uni

people wanting to be "holier than thou", trying to be  more "right-on" than anyone else, point scoring with  how much they can be seen to have the "correct" opinions on a wide range of contentious subjects

give me a different phrase that succinctly describes this

ToneControl

littlegreenman said:

The train thing was a total cock-up of his own making, even I could have seen how that panned out! The guy's a fool. I'm a northern lefty and I wouldn't vote for him.

My problem is now, who the fook do I vote for?

yes, my problem too

ToneControl

LoFi said:

Heartfeltdawn said:

That's entirely the point of my previous post; when I say turning away, I'm meaning people who would have voted for him now wouldn't based on the train incident. As you wouldn't have voted for him had the train incident never happened, then it doesn't really matter. I don't think it has lost him many votes right now but has lost him some face. 

I understood your post perfectly, but I disagree that it won't cost him votes in the future (assuming he leads the party into the next election) - it's one of a number of small bats that the Tories will use to hit him with in a campaign, a bat he didn't need to give them. It's given his opponents reasons to question not just his honesty but his competence, and there will be those in the centre (and left of centre) who'll be swayed by those questions.

There will also be those that thought he was a "good, honest bloke" but don't have my political views who might have voted for him for those reasons only and now will be thinking twice.

I also think it will further reduce his "approval ratings", and therefore reduce votes significantly in the next general election
it will be a great stick to beat him with,  what a dummy.
Does he even know what a commuter is?
 I don't know anyone who commutes from London to Newcastle at 11am 

Thick?
He is a bit thick,  and we can now see that his team of advisers is a bit thick too.  
He's said thick stuff  on the spur of the moment before, for example that all the research should not be "farmed out" to big pharma companies - apparently the NHS should do that.  In this case though, this was a planned cock-up

Honest?
He  never concealed that he was a hard-lefty - so people can make their own mind up on the policies he advocates (which AFAIK have failed everywhere they have been implemented),  although I do recall that a lot of  anti-EU stuff that was deleted from his website last year , so he was  never all that honest. 

Decent?
He has been videoed letting his close supporters  reduce a Jewish MP to tears without intervening - so not decent I think. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-antisemitism-jeremy-corbyn-ruth-smeeth-jewish-mp-accused-of-colluding-with-media-a7111061.html ;

Philly_Q

ToneControl said:

littlegreenman said:

The train thing was a total cock-up of his own making, even I could have seen how that panned out! The guy's a fool. I'm a northern lefty and I wouldn't vote for him.

My problem is now, who the fook do I vote for?

yes, my problem too

I feel like for me, voting Labour has been ruled out as an option.  I'm not going to contribute in even the smallest way to Corbyn becoming prime minister, no matter how remote the possibility.

I say that as a floating voter - I've voted Lib Dem, I've even voted Green, but more often than not I've voted Labour, especially at General elections.  Next time I may well be voting Conservative, for only the second time in my life.

Heartfeltdawn

LoFi said:

Heartfeltdawn said:

That's entirely the point of my previous post; when I say turning away, I'm meaning people who would have voted for him now wouldn't based on the train incident. As you wouldn't have voted for him had the train incident never happened, then it doesn't really matter. I don't think it has lost him many votes right now but has lost him some face. 

I understood your post perfectly, but I disagree that it won't cost him votes in the future (assuming he leads the party into the next election) - it's one of a number of small bats that the Tories will use to hit him with in a campaign, a bat he didn't need to give them. It's given his opponents reasons to question not just his honesty but his competence, and there will be those in the centre (and left of centre) who'll be swayed by those questions.

There will also be those that thought he was a "good, honest bloke" but don't have my political views who might have voted for him for those reasons only and now will be thinking twice.

His competence was called into question two months ago with a 172-40 motion of no confidence from his own PLP and mass resignations from the Shadow Cabinet. A stupid train stunt hasn't suddenly taken him from possible future PM to absolutely in the toilet. 

Heartfeltdawn

ToneControl said:

what should we call it then?  obviously it's not going to be used by hard-left people criticising their best mates is it?
Virtue-signalling is an accurate description of what some people did and do, and I saw it all the time in the 80s at Uni

people wanting to be "holier than thou", trying to be  more "right-on" than anyone else, point scoring with  how much they can be seen to have the "correct" opinions on a wide range of contentious subjects

give me a different phrase that succinctly describes this

How about 'we just don't call it anything'? 

Virtue signalling is actually used by some folk with a very hard left background. Although the like of Spiked magazine and Brendan O'Neil now speak of their libertarian allegiance, they both came from the Revolutionary Communist Party and happily speak about the evil ol' virtue signalling. An organisation like the NRA signals its virtues. It's not hard left but there's little difference in how it broadcasts its views to my mind.

The phrase is used as a casual dismisser of opinion in exactly the same way 'champagne socialism' was. It adds nothing to the debate whatsoever.