Chandler Guitars To Close - end of era

ICBM

fretfinder said:

I look at their website from time to time and am surprised how toppy their prices are. So presumably they don't sell much and it must be hard to keep a business going if you're relying mainly on repairs.

On the contrary, the repairs probably bring in a big proportion of the business. The profit margin is far higher - the cost of materials is trivial compared to the labour, usually. By comparison sales need either a big investment to buy stock, or are commission sales for private owners so don't make that much money.

This is also why the prices are high - because of the internet, the owners know exactly how much their guitar is worth, and so want that much back *after* commission. The shop does have a reason for being able to charge more, too - unlike a private seller they can take credit cards or provide finance, offer a guarantee, and in some cases might be willing to take a trade-in.

Admittedly the shop I work for is far smaller, but it's a similar model - mostly higher-end second hand stock on commission, and I fully admit it's usually priced at above the private-sale 'going rate' - it has to be - and we still sell them. The repair side brings in most of the day-to-day income though.

Gassage

Benson said:

So is CCGX still run by Charlie? Not been there in years. 

Charlie left and formed CCGX in 2002.

Kebabkid

@guitars4you ;

The original thread - http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/84820/chaps-heads-up-do-read/p1

Blaendulais

kjdowd said:

Blaendulais said:

I also made it known that the workshop guys (andy, andy, brinsley) are keeping workshop going at another close location.  I have saved up some work to deliver when they open as I think its vital this aspect thrives.

Any more detail on this? I've used those guys a lot and would like to continue to do so. 

PMd

guitars4you

Kebabkid said:

@guitars4you ;

The original thread - http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/84820/chaps-heads-up-do-read/p1

Thanks - did not see this at the time - I only picked up the info yesterday on a trade mailshot - I probably would not have mentioned it other than they where the original boutique UK shop maybe modeled on the likes of Rudy's in the USA - As Mr Homer states earlier, many other stores later became influenced by Chandlers and I for one always read their adverts for ideas and influences - Amazon might take their place for day to day sales but they will never compete with such stores for trends, influences and inspiration - There is  massive difference between the 'cut and paste format' and applying this info on to a web site for an LP Standard compared to the passion to nurture and develop a brand or idea

Bucket

Sad news. I like that shop a lot.

frictionfraction

I went to the guitar institute at Acton back n the late 90s and used to go there to ogle real life guitar porn.  They turned a rather average japanese strat I had into probably the best  strat I've owned. Really sad to hear that they are joining the roll of honour for quality guitar stores that are no more.  I always wondered how long a guitar store could last in an area of London where property values make nearly anything unviable. 

Fortheloveofguitar

Moe_Zambeek said:

Wham are they closing? I've been watching their site and for the most part, even with 'sale' pricing they're still overpriced...

This is what I said in the Gassage thread. 

Completly ridiculous pricing on the majority of items 

Gassage

I've played this guitar- it is STUNNING.

http://chandlerguitars.co.uk/product_Detail.php?ItemID=6138

dindude

Gassage said:

I've played this guitar- it is STUNNING.

http://chandlerguitars.co.uk/product_Detail.php?ItemID=6138

5.4lbs!, that's an impossibly on a Strat surely, unless the body is chambered.

Strat54

Posted this in the other thread too...

Ahh say it ain't so, must have bought thirty or more guitars from there in the 90's even though I lived 200 miles away. Doug and Paula were always lovely to deal with and very fair too cos I was always chopping and changing guitars. Such a great place to hang out there in its heyday and met loads of big names there too, but they treated me a young 20 yr old home player just like they did the famous guys. 
Back in the day they weren't over priced, I bought quite a few ex name guitars and was never charged more for that...Mick Ralphs '82 AVRI Tele was £425...Graham Gouldman's (10cc) '87 PRS Custom cost me £1200 for example....oh and my dear long since departed ex Roger Taylor Schecter Tele....£750...bugger! Everything came set up to perfection too, the workshop was brilliant. Who remembers the tariff board complete with extra charge for those who wanted to watch them work on your guitar...funny! 
My first Custom Shop Fenders circa 1990 came from there....my first PRS Custom....my first '90 Tom Anderson....it was never ending, I'd ring Doug up for a chat pre internet days on a regular  basis, he'd send me guitars on appro if I couldn't travel down. Once when Tom Anderson took ages to make me a guitar Doug loaned me a lovely  £1500 Strat to play F.O.C whilst I waited. 
He never made me feel like I was a walking £ sign through the door. I'd spend hours there just chatting. Doug was knowledgeable and well connected, he had a real passion for quality instruments. Went to a Guitar show in London once and spent a couple of hours with him and Paul Reed Smith just talking guitar over coffee. Happy days. I was gutted when he left to work for PRS in the U.S and split from Paula. End of an era right there.
Chandlers also sold plenty of guitars for me, even when I'd bought tthem from elsewhere...they were always very fair with their commission charged and sold them well for me.
Things change, not for the better....never felt quite the same about other shops.Sounds Great were fairly close to me but they weren't on a par with Chandlers despite Gary's best efforts. These days I avoid the shops and either buy privately or online, quite often from the U.S....can't bear there attitudes and bland modern shelving....give me the posters and wooden pegboard at Chandlers any day.....it was like an Aladdins cave...you'd go for one thing then find another gem whilst you were there.
My fave moment with Doug was when he was dealing with two guys trying out amps, he sold them a Mesa Boogie in the end ..the softly spoken guy in a blue parka with hood up paid and I could tell that Doug had no idea who they were. They left and he came back across to me, I was laughing...he asked if I knew them....he suspected they must be famous cos their address was a P.O Box...yep it was Ian Broudie and Terry Hall of the Lightening Seeds and Specials fame...I told him and he was still none the wiser...lol....he was such a gent...denim shirt, beige slacks and deck shoes....last of a breed. 
Alas I did sense the end was coming, I had a sneaky look online at the accounts of various guitar shop a while back just to see the state of the market and was sad to see Chandlers as one of the ones who were struggling. They aren't alone....others will follow. One day we'll be left with only the dreaded _______ !

Thanks Doug, Paula, Charlie & Brinsley.

Neil

dindude said:

Gassage said:

I've played this guitar- it is STUNNING.

http://chandlerguitars.co.uk/product_Detail.php?ItemID=6138

5.4lbs!, that's an impossibly on a Strat surely, unless the body is chambered.

I thought the same.

Perhaps the body is balsa wood?

darius

I bought my first amp (used) from them, when they were still in the tiny shop on the other side of the road, back in t'80s. I grew up nearby. After they opened the bigger shop they became soooo high end, so as a kid I never went in. As a grown up, I still can't afford to shop there! Great little amp room down in the basement though. I'll miss popping in for a lazy look around. Boutique shops have a limited lifespan from now on.

Sassafras

It's about time the online box-shifters got a slice of the pie.
Bricks & mortar shops are killing the mail order businesses.

downbytheriver

It's all very well saying that Chandler's is/was over priced, the point being that you used to go there for the stuff you couldn't get anywhere else, thus comparison was irrelevant. 

Shame it's closing but I confess I haven't been there in years - for my money, what I enjoyed left with Charlie, and still exists, perhaps on a smaller scale, at CCGX. 

mattdavis

That is sad - that basement was great - agree prices were a little steep but paying for premises in Kew aint cheap! Never felt pressured there either and the workshop managed to make my old Washburn WP80 play better than it should. Will probably pop in before it closes to say 'bye.

Gassage

Here's the thing. Mentioning no names, I believe their gradual decline was a result of the aggression of the new manager who ran the shop for Paula.

As an example: 30% commission when you're a regular customer is greedy and slows down their volume throughput. Also not offering reasonable pex on stuff and also having Charlie donw the road who would, when pushed, do 15% and gets more of the boutique clientele in anyway

JohnPerry

Gassage said:

Here's the thing. Mentioning no names, I believe their gradual decline was a result of the aggression of the new manager who ran the shop for Paula.

As an example: 30% commission when you're a regular customer is greedy and slows down their volume throughput. Also not offering reasonable pex on stuff and also having Charlie donw the road who would, when pushed, do 15% and gets more of the boutique clientele in anyway

This was indeed my final experience with them. I bought a new pedal from them online, having asked a moderately technical question about it from the staff beforehand. Pedal arrived, did not do what i was told it would, and the manager refused a refund. Said he would give me a credit note. The excuse? "Look, everyone's responsible for researching their own pedals before they buy."

I pointed out the distance selling regs, fully detailed on their own site, and he buckled.

crunchman

@Gassage I agree that the commission rates got too high.  I did have a conversation about it with the manager once.  He told me they weren't making a lot of money on cheaper stuff that took up a lot of space.  I can kind of understand a higher rate on cheap stuff as they don't make a lot of money on it, but you could sell something for £1999 and they would still take 25%.  Charlie is 15%, New King's Road is 12%, and Guitar Classics is 10%.  New King's Road and Guitar Classics aren't interested in the cheaper stuff either but they just don't take it in.  From what I can see the manager was more interested in selling vintage stuff for £10k as the commission on that is a lot more but to do that you are better off having a smaller floor space and lower rents.

I also remember a conversation with him around the time they gave up their PRS dealership.  He was complaining that other dealers were cutting prices too low from the RRP so there was no margin in them any more.  He took the decision to stop selling new PRS rather than cut margins.  I'd imagine that they did this with other lines as well.  They should have been more competitive on price and tried to shift bigger numbers to compensate for smaller margins.

Their model was based on service.  I remember borrowing something over a weekend to take home and try out.  How many shops would let you do that?  The problem is that they didn't have enough customers who valued that service over price to make that model work.  I bought a guitar in there as recently as last year, but I must admit that most of my big purchases have been from Guitar Village in recent years as their prices are a lot better.  They are an example of an independent who seem to be managing the new world of retail a lot better.

Talking about the manager, he could come across as a bit aggressive but I think he was genuinely trying to give what he thought was good advice.  He's not as bad as Stewart Ward at Award-Session though.  I remember ordering a Vintage 30 from him.  He was very aggressive in telling me that it wasn't the right speaker for my amp.  With hindsight, he was right but his manner meant I have steered clear of buying stuff from him.

Jimbro66

No, it wasn't all good. They sold a guitar for me on hefty commission and it was two months before I got the money from them. Even then it was only after a lot of chasing phone calls and broken promises. That rather soured the Chandlers experience for me after many years of being a frequent sales and workshop customer.

It seems that in latter years they still had the slight aloofness of being suppliers to the stars even though the shop was no longer what it once was. Nevertheless, a shame to see their demise. The upside is that the excellent CCGX is still very much in business and long may it continue.

Edit: It's good to hear that Brinsley and the workshop team are likely to continue in other premises. They were the part of Chandlers that always remained top-notch.