vintage guitars....do you care for them ?

WezV

I will ignore any play or sound better arguments - each guitar needs to be judged on its merits and balanced that against work it has had done.


but I like guitars, and I like their history.  And I like old stuff

I will never get to discuss music with a Robert Johnson.... but I can still play a guitar like his from the same era.  Even if it plays like shit and sounds terrible I would still want it over a modern equivalent, fully aware it won't be like it was in the 30's anymore.   

I like old objects.  I like guitars.  Apparently I am not alone in this.

meltedbuzzbox

Where's the mention of all the vintage dogs out there?
For all the mention of the best tone machines devised no one seems to notice there are a lot bad vintage guitars, sat there at a massive mark up just because they're old. 
A lot of this just feels like the consensus is that if it's old it's good.

IvisonGuitars

Bridgehouse said:

@musicman100 - No, it doesn't. It's been there for a while, and it has come down in price too. Makes me wonder if they would come down more if someone wafted notes in front of their nose to take it off their hands...

It's on fleabay at the moment too..

@Bridgehouse ;NKR do have a fair few guitars in on commission sales so, if it's one of them, they may be tied a little bit on price, however, it might be worth asking the question though as they did contact a seller for me about a guitar I was looking at to see if he'd move on price. He wouldn't so it stayed there but the you might have more luck :-) 

IvisonGuitars

Alnico said:

It's lovely that they still exist but i would not give a fuck about gigging ANY vintage guitar and playing the strings off it doing it. If some jumped up tart decides it's worth £20k then fine. While Tarquin is pontificating about the apparent benefits of bumblebee caps and rusty fucking screws, i will be sweating all over it, hitting the strings the way it was designed to be and howling every beautiful tone out of it that i can.

They're for playing, not looking at.

This! :-)  

Bridgehouse

@miserneil - thanks chap. I'm in no rush at the moment - building up funds and all that but it's good to know they might do deals on their prices

shugz

meltedbuzzbox said:

Where's the mention of all the vintage dogs out there?
For all the mention of the best tone machines devised no one seems to notice there are a lot bad vintage guitars, sat there at a massive mark up just because they're old. 
A lot of this just feels like the consensus is that if it's old it's good.

Not so. Not in my case any way. 

You'd have to ask others but certainly old does not always mean good. Just like the modern stuff, try and only buy if you like/ rate it as an actual guitar. If you have 5 in a guitar shop of similar make and model, one or two will stick out. Some good, some average and some best avoided. They are tools, not trinkets.

At least that's how I view them. 

Cheers 
Hugh

Bridgehouse

I've tried a few vintage dogs on a Saturday night after a few sherbets and they were brash and harsh and.. oh, not that kind..

IvisonGuitars

meltedbuzzbox said:

Where's the mention of all the vintage dogs out there?
For all the mention of the best tone machines devised no one seems to notice there are a lot bad vintage guitars, sat there at a massive mark up just because they're old. 
A lot of this just feels like the consensus is that if it's old it's good.

There are plenty of dogs out there, vintage and new.

In fact, id go as far to say that the UK gets the fag end of vintage guitars compared to the US and it's more important to seek out a good one here.

From my experience touring the US and trawling EVERY vintage shop I could find over the years, the percentage of great playing and sounding vintage guitars to dogs/tone turds was about 70/30. Was a real eye opener.

marantz1300

I just play them and treat them the same as my partscasters.

They are a tool,,..but with some mojo.

Skipped

siraxeman said:

 I don't think I could believe that someone say like a JoBo could pick out a 59 blindfold from say some new guitar that is modelled after one (so it feels the same).

You must have an opinion about JoBo choosing to play 50s Les Pauls (and other golden era guitars)?
If you are correct - and everything he has ever said about his guitars, is an elaborate game....that doesn't make sense. He has created a pension pot out of 'Bursts. That is a very risky strategy. Especially if he can't even tell the difference.

Do you think there is a particular reason why Paul McCartney or Johnny Marr are recording with vintage Epiphone, Gibson, Fender guitars. in their own studio,,,,,,even when they are alone and no-one can see them?
Is that another elaborate game.....that doesn't make any sense?

I am anxious not to be rude....we are just chatting......but I don't get what it is that you don't get.
If you are handed a beautifully engineered Leica camera from the 20th Century do you shrug your shoulders and say - "so what? I don't get it".
Quality is quality.
It is not about old.
There is no prospect that JoBo will be touring with 1973 Les Paul Deluxe guitars any time soon.
He goes to a hell of a lot of trouble to protect his guitar when he travels.
A hell of a lot of hassle if he can't actually tell the difference. 

https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtl1/t31.0-8/12362969_938183162929037_2917382186547735009_o.jpg

meltedbuzzbox

Skipped said:

siraxeman said:

 I don't think I could believe that someone say like a JoBo could pick out a 59 blindfold from say some new guitar that is modelled after one (so it feels the same).

You must have an opinion about JoBo choosing to play 50s Les Pauls (and other golden era guitars)?
If you are correct - and everything he has ever said about his guitars, is an elaborate game....that doesn't make sense. He has created a pension pot out of 'Bursts. That is a very risky strategy. Especially if he can't even tell the difference.

Do you think there is a particular reason why Paul McCartney or Johnny Marr are recording with vintage Epiphone, Gibson, Fender guitars. in their own studio,,,,,,even when they are alone and no-one can see them?
Is that another elaborate game.....that doesn't make any sense?

I am anxious not to be rude....we are just chatting......but I don't get what it is that you don't get.
If you are handed a beauifully engineered Leica camera from the 20th Century do you shrug your shoulders and say - "so what? I don't get it".
Quality is quality.
It is not about old.
There is no prospect that JoBo will be touring with 1973 Les Paul Deluxe guitars any time soon.
He goes to a hell of a lot of trouble to protect his guitar when he travels.
A hell of a lot of hassle if he can't actually tell the difference. 

https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtl1/t31.0-8/12362969_938183162929037_2917382186547735009_o.jpg

And then you had George Harrison playing a squier...

Skipped

miserneil said:

In fact, id go as far to say that the UK gets the fag end of vintage guitars

That has to be part of it.
The UK always seems to get the basket cases. And they are often the same guitars going round and round.

If I could take the whole forum to spend an afternoon at Chicago Music Exchange I am sure that that many skeptics could be persuaded.....

Guitarse

I'm not keen on this 'relicing' at all, and it gives sellers an excuse to keep the price up on, what is essentially, damaged goods palmed off as 'mojo'. Would anyone buy a 'reliced' car? 

richardhomer

meltedbuzzbox said:

Where's the mention of all the vintage dogs out there?
For all the mention of the best tone machines devised no one seems to notice there are a lot bad vintage guitars, sat there at a massive mark up just because they're old. 
A lot of this just feels like the consensus is that if it's old it's good.

richardhomer said:
What I don't care for, is the hyping of 70s guitars by dealers to the point where they now command price tags in excess of some of the best modern guitars, when most are inferior.

So I'm not saying anything old is 'better' - but Gibsons and Fenders built in the so called 'Golden Era' (generally considered to be up to and including '65)    are usually something special. There are plenty of later ones which are good too - but many of the 'classic' features gradually changed after '65.

In many ways, I think we're in another 'Golden Era' of guitar making now - the best of the Fender Custom Shop and Gibson Historics are better than anything those companies have made since the '60s - but few (if any) are 'quite' as good as real vintage examples.

@Meltedbuzzbox - I take it you didn't read my post?

No one in the thread is saying 'all old guitars are great' - but some of us who've played a lot of vintage instruments are saying most of the greatest guitars we've played happen to be old - which is not the same thing at all....

TheBigDipper

I don't buy guitars as a collector, so I really don't care if a guitar I'm thinking of buying is vintage or not. I respect the right of collectors to collect whatever they want and pay whatever they need to pay, though.

Having said that, when I bought my Les Paul in 2010, I did end up buying a 2009 VOS. It played and sounded nicer than the others I tried.

Danielsguitars

Couldn't have put it better

The battered ones are the loved ones with a tone to match 

TTBZ

Never played one but they don't appeal to me in the slightest. Extortionate prices and I'd never really feel comfortable playing one, they always look like they're about to fall to bits. I don't believe a vintage guitar would sound better than the modern equivalent either, if they both had similar pickups/wiring etc.

Vintage amps on the other hand

IvisonGuitars

richardhomer said:

meltedbuzzbox said:

Where's the mention of all the vintage dogs out there?
For all the mention of the best tone machines devised no one seems to notice there are a lot bad vintage guitars, sat there at a massive mark up just because they're old. 
A lot of this just feels like the consensus is that if it's old it's good.

richardhomer said:
What I don't care for, is the hyping of 70s guitars by dealers to the point where they now command price tags in excess of some of the best modern guitars, when most are inferior.

So I'm not saying anything old is 'better' - but Gibsons and Fenders built in the so called 'Golden Era' (generally considered to be up to and including '65)    are usually something special. There are plenty of later ones which are good too - but many of the 'classic' features gradually changed after '65.

In many ways, I think we're in another 'Golden Era' of guitar making now - the best of the Fender Custom Shop and Gibson Historics are better than anything those companies have made since the '60s - but few (if any) are 'quite' as good as real vintage examples.

@Meltedbuzzbox - I take it you didn't read my post?

No one in the thread is saying 'all old guitars are great' - but some of us who've played a lot of vintage instruments are saying most of the greatest guitars we've played happen to be old - which is not the same thing at all....

Wis again RH!

For disclosure, I am lucky enough to own 3 exceptional vintage guitars, a '55 Junior, '56 Special and a '65 Telecaster. All of them are 'player grade' and therefore have some changes or repairs but they are gigged regularly BECAUSE they are great sounding guitars and I get a real buzz and inspiration out of playing them.

However, I also have a 2002 R8 that I call the Ferrari because it is the best, easiest playing guitar I own. The neck carve is sublime and it's a real treat to play it.

I also had a '59 CS Esquire for a while that I foolishly sold to @JohnPerry (not that he was a nightmare to deal with, he's a diamond, I'm the fool for letting it go!) and that was up there with the best sounding vintage guitars I've encountered.

So I take every guitar on its individual Merit. While I certainly prefer the look, feel and sound of the vintage guitars that I own, I'm certainly not saying ALL vintage guitars are great at all. 

WezV

Guitarse said:

 Would anyone buy a 'reliced' car? 

Yes.  Google ratrod cars.

you our might want to check out stonewashed jeans and shabby chic furniture whilst you are at it.

IvisonGuitars

TTBZ said:

Never played one but they don't appeal to me in the slightest. Extortionate prices and I'd never really feel comfortable playing one, they always look like they're about to fall to bits.

Vintage amps on the other hand

See, I'm the total opposite of this. It may be totally unfounded but vintage amps fill me with dread, I'd not be comfortable gigging one for fear of it failing on me. That's why I go for the boutique versions of the classics.