Do leads make a difference?

Sassafras

I've seen more broken jack plugs on Fender cables than any other makes.
The cable might be OK but the plugs are very poor quality.

timmysoft

Its worth trying a few brands and models before you decide on a lead you like. I did use the Fender standard ones, then tried the custom shop ones, they sounded duller so i switched back to the standard ones. 

 Now i'm not touring i actually have the time to make my own again and they beat the fenders by a mile, plus i can make whatever length i want!

robgilmo

So guys if I decided to make my own, what cable would you recommend to use?

Sporky

I like Klotz LaGrange, and Sommer Classique.

robgilmo

Cooliio, I see Thomann do cable by the meter.

https://www.thomann.de/gb/instrument_cables_cables.html

Shipping costs arnt all that cheap but its a starting point.

Sporky

StudioSpares used to be good for cut cable too - worth a look.

EricTheWeary

Years ago I won a couple of Van Damme cables. I knew they were a lot more expensive than the ones I was using but had no idea why, just presumed they were overall better quality in some way. Anyway, plugged in and instantly heard a difference, generally clearer/ brighter. I had no idea that would happen so I've been convinced different cables make some difference since ( and they have, touch wood, been super reliable as well which wasn't true of the cheap ones).

I don't think this is answered above and I've never been too sure:

with very short lengths ( eg patch leads on pedalboards) does the lead make any difference? That is they are too short for the capacitance to make a difference or is their capacity added into the total? 

Sassafras

EricTheWeary said:

Years ago I won a couple of Van Damme cables. I knew they were a lot more expensive than the ones I was using but had no idea why, just presumed they were overall better quality in some way. Anyway, plugged in and instantly heard a difference, generally clearer/ brighter. I had no idea that would happen so I've been convinced different cables make some difference since ( and they have, touch wood, been super reliable as well which wasn't true of the cheap ones).

I don't think this is answered above and I've never been too sure:

with very short lengths ( eg patch leads on pedalboards) does the lead make any difference? That is they are too short for the capacitance to make a difference or is their capacity added into the total? 

All added to the total cable length

ICBM

EricTheWeary said:

I don't think this is answered above and I've never been too sure:

with very short lengths ( eg patch leads on pedalboards) does the lead make any difference? That is they are too short for the capacitance to make a difference or is their capacity added into the total? 

If the pedals are true-bypass (or even worse, half-bypass) then they're added to the total. If they're buffered, then they aren't.

One often overlooked factor is the capacitance of the *plugs* - that might sound odd, but it is real, measurable and often much greater than you might expect, sometimes as much as a foot or more of cable per plug. So a 6" patch cable won't have 1/20th of the capacitance of a 10' guitar cable, it could be much more than that. Many patch cables and all-true-bypass pedals can really start to seriously affect the top-end.

Rocker

robgilmo said:

skunkwerx said:

I used to have a few cheap cables, they all broke after a year or so (some were freebies actually). 

Then a few years back I bought a couple of Cordial cables from Dv247. 
Neutrik connecters, much better quality in general etc and I swore I heard a difference in sound. Just sounded, more detailed, clearer. But I thought maybe its just my audiophile car setup days coming back to haunt me! 

I remember meeting guys who would only use speaker wire made of silver.. 
We joked that unicorn hair must be used for their RCA's... 

But no, I agree, I'm sure I heard a better more pleasing for me (or just different) sound when using the Cordial cables as opposed to whatever the hell I was using previously! 

I tried silver speaker cable on my hifi once, its a very bright system as it is , a little bass shy, the silver made it even brighter, so a change for the worst. I ended up kidding myself that it was a better sound for years. Now I use cable from an old lawnmower to connect my speakers, its all I had at the time when I moved my speakers as my silver cable wasn't long enough. Silver cable went on EBay, lawnmower cable stayed.

Your report on your experiences with silver speaker cable is fascinating @robgilmo.  It is the direct opposite to what I heard on my hi-fi system.  As my system was supplied with copper Nordost cables, I assumed that they were close to the best available.  Several months later I tried a pair of silver speaker cables [I only use single runs per speaker] and was surprised at how smooth the system sounded.  I have always said to beware of a hi-fi system that wows you with its sound.  A good hi-fi system sounds very underwhelming on first listen.  It usually takes a few hours listening for the penny to drop - everything is there and where it should be, it just does not jump out at you!  Returning to the Nordost wires, convinced me to get a pair of silver speaker cables for my system.  Which I did.  A pair of hand made silver speaker cables cost a lot less than Nordost cables.  I am not saying that silver is better than copper, but it is different.  Some amplifiers, Naim Audio for example, are voiced using their own copper cables.  Anything other than Naim cables will make a Naim system sound 'wrong'.  I have never tried lawnmower cable though it is often recommended here for use between amplifier head and cab.  But most guitar amp setups receive a lot more abuse than a hi-fi system [which is rarely if ever moved].  There is no doubt that an amp->cab cable made from lawnmower cable would be more robust than if it were made from silver wire.

robgilmo

Rocker said:

robgilmo said:

skunkwerx said:

I used to have a few cheap cables, they all broke after a year or so (some were freebies actually). 

Then a few years back I bought a couple of Cordial cables from Dv247. 
Neutrik connecters, much better quality in general etc and I swore I heard a difference in sound. Just sounded, more detailed, clearer. But I thought maybe its just my audiophile car setup days coming back to haunt me! 

I remember meeting guys who would only use speaker wire made of silver.. 
We joked that unicorn hair must be used for their RCA's... 

But no, I agree, I'm sure I heard a better more pleasing for me (or just different) sound when using the Cordial cables as opposed to whatever the hell I was using previously! 

I tried silver speaker cable on my hifi once, its a very bright system as it is , a little bass shy, the silver made it even brighter, so a change for the worst. I ended up kidding myself that it was a better sound for years. Now I use cable from an old lawnmower to connect my speakers, its all I had at the time when I moved my speakers as my silver cable wasn't long enough. Silver cable went on EBay, lawnmower cable stayed.

Your report on your experiences with silver speaker cable is fascinating @robgilmo.  It is the direct opposite to what I heard on my hi-fi system.  As my system was supplied with copper Nordost cables, I assumed that they were close to the best available.  Several months later I tried a pair of silver speaker cables [I only use single runs per speaker] and was surprised at how smooth the system sounded.  I have always said to beware of a hi-fi system that wows you with its sound.  A good hi-fi system sounds very underwhelming on first listen.  It usually takes a few hours listening for the penny to drop - everything is there and where it should be, it just does not jump out at you!  Returning to the Nordost wires, convinced me to get a pair of silver speaker cables for my system.  Which I did.  A pair of hand made silver speaker cables cost a lot less than Nordost cables.  I am not saying that silver is better than copper, but it is different.  Some amplifiers, Naim Audio for example, are voiced using their own copper cables.  Anything other than Naim cables will make a Naim system sound 'wrong'.  I have never tried lawnmower cable though it is often recommended here for use between amplifier head and cab.  But most guitar amp setups receive a lot more abuse than a hi-fi system [which is rarely if ever moved].  There is no doubt that an amp->cab cable made from lawnmower cable would be more robust than if it were made from silver wire.

I had Chord Odyssey between a Marantz Ki amp and a pair of Yamaha NS670 speakers, the speakers only go to 45Hz but have fantastic midrange and tweeters, the amp is very bright and forward, I found the silver to be a bit shrill with this set up, detailed but much to bright. I think the most important factor with speaker cable is the gauge. 

robinbowes

Oh Christ, the hifi loons have arrived! 

robgilmo

Moving along swiftly, am I after a inner wire cross section of thin or thick wire? I noticed some are 0.5mm and some are thicker?

Sporky

robgilmo said:

Moving along swiftly, am I after a inner wire cross section of thin or thick wire? I noticed some are 0.5mm and some are thicker?

Doesn't enormously matter. Audio frequencies are too low for skin effect to matter, and resistance is irrelevant for guitar cables.

Rocker

robinbowes said:

Oh Christ, the hifi loons have arrived! 

The prejudice of the ignorant!

Sporky

Rocker said:

robinbowes said:

Oh Christ, the hifi loons have arrived! 

The prejudice of the ignorant!

Not sure why you're so proud of ignorance.

Megii

@robgilmo - just to say I honestly think if you're just after a couple of good leads for home use, then IMHO you could do a lot worse than putting in an order at Kabl i.e. http://www.kablonline.com/ and save yourself the trouble of buying all the bits and then the soldering. You'll get well-built leads that will last and last, and sound great.

Having done the soldering thing myself, yes, it can be worthwhile, but also it can be a bit tricky to get things right the first few attempts, and you don't necessarily safe yourself a lot of money either.

Sporky

I used to make leads, but Kabl does a lovely job and it's not something I enormously enjoyed.

JayGee

Sporky said:

I used to make leads, but Kabl does a lovely job and it's not something I enormously enjoyed.

This.

At Rob's prices and for the quality of job he does it just isn't worth the hassle of finding the soldering iron...

Rocker

robinbowes said:

Oh Christ, the hifi loons have arrived! 

My friend, why did you write the above?  What do you hope to achieve?  @Robgilmo and myself were discussing our experiences with different cables - much the same as two members discussing guitars.  We differed of course but neither of us is right or wrong.  Just different.  Exactly as a Strat is the same but different to a Tele.

I would like to know why you contributed to this topic as you expressed no opinion one way or the other on the cables under discussion.  A lot of people believe that cables cannot affect the sound of a hi-fi system but some of those same individuals can stand over claims that guitar leads do affect the signal from the guitar.  I can live with that apparent contradiction.  

Wondering if on threads about watches did you write "Oh Christ, the expensive watches loons have arrived!"